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 Fighting anti-Christmas legalism in the church |
Resident Skeptic |
Yes it's that time of year again when all the nut-cases start telling how pagan and idolatrous it is to celebrate Christ's birth on a particular day. Does anyone know of some good written or recorded works that can refute this nonsense?
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
12/19/17 2:39 pm
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| Re: Fighting anti-Christmas legalism in the church |
Mat |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Yes it's that time of year again when all the nut-cases start telling how pagan and idolatrous it is to celebrate Christ's birth on a particular day. Does anyone know of some good written or recorded works that can refute this nonsense? |
I'm don't think there is much (any) research that would support December 25th as the day Jesus was born. There is a great deal to support the fact that the Roman Church often "co-opted" pagan feast days and replaced them with Christian "Holy Days".
That said, this year my church finally got rid of the old church tree and bought a new one for the sanctuary. It sure is purity and makes me feel all "Christmas-y" inside.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
12/19/17 3:01 pm
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Chicago27 |
| Nut cases? Just because someone has a belief that is not what you believe, doesn’t mean they are nut cases. Many may think that Oneness folks are nut cases. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 253
12/19/17 3:04 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| As one who formerly bought into the idea that pure evangelical Christianity should seek to rid itself of all vestiges of paganism, for me the light came on with the realization that the primary fallacy of the anti-Christmas/anti-Easter/anti-paganism argument is one of confusing form with substance. Just because the Catholic Church may have adopted some paganistic elements (like a winter solstice celebration) and made them Christian does not mean that a Christian who celebrates Christmas nowadays is thereby himself practicing paganism, as the anti-Christmas protestors claim. Why should only the pagans get to grant significance to certain times of the year? And if we as followers of Christ seek to give Christian significance to this season in a way that honors Christ, what is wrong with that? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
12/19/17 3:48 pm
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UncleJD |
I've read some interesting arguments for a December 25 date based on a June date of John The Baptist leaping in Elizabeth's womb (but I don't have that link right now). I think the one thing that beats the "pagan" claim is that the claim is based on Saturnalia pre-dating Christmas, but there is a lot of reason to believe it was not celebrated widely or officially until around 250 AD, long after Christians had already begun celebrating Christmas.
In the end, it doesn't matter to me since Christianity NEVER celebrated Pagan gods, even IF they decided to co-opt a pagan festival to show Christ's triumph over paganism. The way the early Church thought about culture is different than we do today. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
12/19/17 4:36 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Chicago27 wrote: | | Nut cases? Just because someone has a belief that is not what you believe, doesn’t mean they are nut cases. Many may think that Oneness folks are nut cases. |
Those who condemn to hell their fellow-believers for celebrating Christmas are nutcases IMO.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
12/19/17 6:08 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
I'm not looking to defend the Dec 25th date. I'm simply looking for research that refutes the idea that it is "pagan" to celebrate Christmas. I have found some evidence that points to Hebrew Christian celebrating it long before the Catholics did.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
12/19/17 6:09 pm
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| Re: Fighting anti-Christmas legalism in the church |
Link |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Yes it's that time of year again when all the nut-cases start telling how pagan and idolatrous it is to celebrate Christ's birth on a particular day. Does anyone know of some good written or recorded works that can refute this nonsense? |
I read an article online, and I think it may have been from Christianity Today, that argued a case that the date for Christmas was not set to commemorate a pagan festival.
It pointed out that the date for Christmas was 9 months to the day after the date to commemorate the resurrection of Christ. But there were two dates for that, and the other competing date for Christmas, January 6, was nine months after that other date.
The idea was that, using a type of Jewish reasoning, they may have assumed that Jesus was concieved on the same day of the year in which He was resurrected.
The article also argued that the December 25 date first appeared during a time when the church was very much against synchretizing or accepting the dates for pagan holidays.
One might still argue that the Roman calendar is a 'pagan calendar' since God gave Israel certain months on a lunar calendar.
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
12/19/17 7:10 pm
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Chicago27 |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Chicago27 wrote: | | Nut cases? Just because someone has a belief that is not what you believe, doesn’t mean they are nut cases. Many may think that Oneness folks are nut cases. |
Those who condemn to hell their fellow-believers for celebrating Christmas are nutcases IMO. |
Your post said nothing about condemning people to hell. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 253
12/20/17 9:39 am
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Resident Skeptic |
| Chicago27 wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Chicago27 wrote: | | Nut cases? Just because someone has a belief that is not what you believe, doesn’t mean they are nut cases. Many may think that Oneness folks are nut cases. |
Those who condemn to hell their fellow-believers for celebrating Christmas are nutcases IMO. |
Your post said nothing about condemning people to hell. |
Well then, consider this a clarification of my original remarks.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
12/20/17 11:58 am
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