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| Do you believe you can speak in tongues at will? |
| Yes. |
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53% |
[ 41 ] |
| No. |
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43% |
[ 33 ] |
| Other. (Please specify below.) |
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2% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 76 |
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| Message |
Author |
 Re: Question |
Bullseye77 |
| TheoloJohn wrote: | | Bullseye77 wrote: | | Is there a difference between the Holy Spirit giving the utterance, and the Holy Spirit giving the ability? |
I guess it depends on which translation a person uses. The more modern ones all seem to have "as the Spirit was giving them the ability to speak" or something similar to that, while the older translations like the KJV and ASV have "gave them utterance." Not being a Greek scholar, I really don't know if the distinctions make a real difference.
Still I have to wonder, why would any Christian want to speak in tongues apart from the Spirit's empowerment? |
I'm no Greek scholar either, but I believe that having an ability to do something may imply that I am able to do it at will. Whereas, if I am dependent upon the Spirit, I must yield to His will.
The following translations all seem to agree.
(King James Version) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
(American Standard Version) And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
(Bible in Basic English) And they were all full of the Holy Spirit, and were talking in different languages, as the Spirit gave them power.
(Darby's Translation) And they were all filled with [the] Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave to them to speak forth.
(Modern King James Version) And they were all filled of the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
(Montgomery's New Testament) and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
(New King James Version) And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
(Revised Standard Version) And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
(Twentieth Century New Testament) And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with strange 'tongues' as the Spirit prompted their utterances.
(Weymouth's New Testament) They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in foreign languages according as the Spirit gave them words to utter.
(Young's Literal Translation) and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, according as the Spirit was giving them to declare.
I am certainly a part of the 42% of the poll at the beginning of this thread. (So far) But I have never feared being in the minority when I felt I was right.
| Quote: | | Still I have to wonder, why would any Christian want to speak in tongues apart from the Spirit's empowerment? |
TheoloJohn, The only reason I can think of is to draw attention to themselves.
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Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1441
6/17/06 11:29 pm
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| TheoloJohn wrote: | | Would the Spirit of God lead someone to do something without supply the necessary power to do so? Would He enable someone to do something (in the sense of Acts 2 "as the Spirit gave them the ability" ) and not at the same time lead the person to do it? |
Well, I Corinthians 14 is clear that one can speak in tongues when it is out of order. So clearly the Spirit can give the ability when it is not appropriate to speak in tongues. This is an argument for the view that one with the gift of tongues can speak in tongues at will (or at least some can). Where is the scripture that says one cannot?
Where does the idea come from that one must specifically feel led to speak in tongues to give a message in church? I don't see that in scripture. The speaker is supposed to know if there is an interpreter (v. 2 but it does not say he can know this only by supernatural means.
| Quote: |
Would He enable someone to do something (in the sense of Acts 2 "as the Spirit gave them the ability" ) and not at the same time lead the person to do it? |
I think I Corinthians answers this question, since some were using tongues and prophecy, apparently, in a disorderly manner. Prophets can use not to yield to others who receive revelations. Speakers in tongues can wrongly speak out in tongues in the congregation when there is no interpreter.
The idea that you _cannot_ speak in tongues unless specifically led to do so is a great excuse for emotionalism and disorderly church services that don't obey I Corinthians 14. If you think the speaker in tongues is being led specifically by the Spirit to speak in tongues, anytime he does so, then he can interrupt the prophecies, give messages without interpretation, etc. and claim it was the will of God.
I can imagine some of the prophets in Corinth might have had a similar idea. Paul felt it necessary to tell them that the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets, and he told the prophets to yield to another sitting by who received a revelation. Later, he told those who considered themselves to be gifted or prophets to acknowledge that what he said were the commandments of the Lord.
So maybe he was dealing with prophets who claimed, like many do about tongues, that they couldn't prophesy unless specifically led by the Spirit to do so, and that they could not or should not refrain from prophesying.
The problem is the speaker in tongues and prophet have control over whether or not to use their gifts, and they need to use them in an orderly manner.
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
6/18/06 1:34 am
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TheoloJohn |
Link,
Funny how each side on this sees the other side as dangerous and leading to error in one way or the other.
In my own experience, I've seen far, far more abuse and error coming from the idea that you can speak in tongues at will than from the opposite view. In addition to my own mother's claim that she now knew "once saved, always saved" was true based on her ability to speak in tongues anytime she wants (even though she was at that same time living in adultery), I've known plenty of "charismatics" who said the same basic thing--as if they could themselves just control everything.
While I can see what you're saying, you should likewise recognize the inherent dangers in the view that one can speak in tongues anytime they wish. This is why I'm on the middle on this issue.
Blessings,
John
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"Of course we are concerned about people voting if they are dead," George Stanton, chief information officer for the New York State Board of Elections. Poughkeepsie Journal, October 29, 2006 |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2160
6/18/06 4:44 pm
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Link |
| TheoloJohn wrote: | Link,
In my own experience, I've seen far, far more abuse and error coming from the idea that you can speak in tongues at will than from the opposite view. In addition to my own mother's claim that she now knew "once saved, always saved" was true based on her ability to speak in tongues anytime she wants (even though she was at that same time living in adultery), I've known plenty of "charismatics" who said the same basic thing--as if they could themselves just control everything.
John |
Would it have been any less dangerous if she believed in OSAS if she believed she were being moved to speak in tongues if she were living that way?
Maybe the problems you see come from fake tongues, not from speaking in tongues at will.
The real issue here is what the Bible says on the issue. Paul says "I will pray with the spirit...." He tells the one who speaks in tongues, if there is no interpreter, to keep silent in the church. It is obvious the speaker in tongues has a choice whether or not to speak in tongues, and even though he _can_ use his gift, at times the proper thing would be not to do so.
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Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
6/18/06 6:57 pm
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| Short answer......Yes |
Tracy S Hamilton |
This has been discussed in many different ways. I for one, and this is my own opinion as I read scripture, believe that you can speak in tongues whenever you desire. I believe that is called living in the Spirit, or walking in the Spirit.
Where I think the question comes in for many Pentecostals, for which I am one, is when the term is used... "as the Spirit gives the utterance"
The day I received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit gave me the utterance. He doesn't have to keep giving that over and over.
What many people refer to when they say .... as the spirit gives the utterance is that some feeling or emotion comes over them and then they let it go. My response to that is that my walk and relationship with God, and being filled with the Holy Spirit is not based off of emotion or a feeling but rather the "fact" that I confessed with my mouth and do believe in my heart that Jesus is Lord of my life.
I don't get in and out of the Spirit like I get in and out of my car. The Bible tells us that we are to live in the Spirit, walk in the Spirit and to even keep in step with the Spirit. So that being said, that gift that He gave to me is for me to use when I want to pray, fellowship or just simply communicate with my heavenly Father.
Now someone usually responds with something like......so if you are on the golf course or playing softball you can just start speaking in tongues?
My response is yes I could, but for one, what would be the point of speaking in tongues while golfing or playing softball. Speaking in tongues will not help me hit a better shot or get that base hit. That within itself is a shallow view of speaking in tongues.
Just some of my thoughts. Although these are not all of them on this subject.
Tracy |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2714
6/18/06 9:32 pm
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| What about Samson? |
Anakrino |
He had a supernatural ability that was enabled by the Spirit of God and there were times that he used it apart from the Divine will.
Judges 16
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The way of Salvation is simple, but it is not easy. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 304
6/19/06 10:40 am
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| Re: Question |
TheoloJohn |
| Bullseye77 wrote: | | TheoloJohn wrote: | | Bullseye77 wrote: | | Is there a difference between the Holy Spirit giving the utterance, and the Holy Spirit giving the ability? |
I guess it depends on which translation a person uses. The more modern ones all seem to have "as the Spirit was giving them the ability to speak" or something similar to that, while the older translations like the KJV and ASV have "gave them utterance." Not being a Greek scholar, I really don't know if the distinctions make a real difference.
Still I have to wonder, why would any Christian want to speak in tongues apart from the Spirit's empowerment? |
I'm no Greek scholar either, but I believe that having an ability to do something may imply that I am able to do it at will. Whereas, if I am dependent upon the Spirit, I must yield to His will.
The following translations all seem to agree. |
As I read those translations, Bullseye, what seems clear to me is that the Holy Spirit was giving them the ability to speak right then--as they were speaking. In other words, it was not a resident ability from that point forward, but was a God-given ability in the present.
2c more,
John
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"Of course we are concerned about people voting if they are dead," George Stanton, chief information officer for the New York State Board of Elections. Poughkeepsie Journal, October 29, 2006 |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2160
6/19/06 3:38 pm
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| Re: Question |
Bullseye77 |
| TheoloJohn wrote: | | Bullseye77 wrote: | | TheoloJohn wrote: | | Bullseye77 wrote: | | Is there a difference between the Holy Spirit giving the utterance, and the Holy Spirit giving the ability? |
I guess it depends on which translation a person uses. The more modern ones all seem to have "as the Spirit was giving them the ability to speak" or something similar to that, while the older translations like the KJV and ASV have "gave them utterance." Not being a Greek scholar, I really don't know if the distinctions make a real difference.
Still I have to wonder, why would any Christian want to speak in tongues apart from the Spirit's empowerment? |
I'm no Greek scholar either, but I believe that having an ability to do something may imply that I am able to do it at will. Whereas, if I am dependent upon the Spirit, I must yield to His will.
The following translations all seem to agree. |
As I read those translations, Bullseye, what seems clear to me is that the Holy Spirit was giving them the ability to speak right then--as they were speaking. In other words, it was not a resident ability from that point forward, but was a God-given ability in the present.
2c more,
John |
Thanks. That explanation satisfies me.
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Posts: 1441
6/19/06 4:47 pm
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Then if we take I Corinthians 14 into account, we need to consider that the Spirit may have given them the utterance when they chose to use the gift. They clearly could have had 'the utterance' at times when it would have been out of order to use the gift.
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Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
6/19/06 7:26 pm
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| Paul didn't tell the Corinthians |
Anakrino |
"You are not speaking as the Spirit gives the utterance."
He told them they were speaking in unknown tongues when it would be better for them to prophesy. Later he told them that using the gift of tongues at the same time would be out of order.
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Friendly Face
Posts: 304
6/20/06 7:46 am
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TheoloJohn |
It may mess with our preconceived notions of God's Spirit, but I think there may be something to C.S. Lewis' observation that God is like a Lion, wonderfully powerful but also always to some extent wild. Perhaps this is what is going on when spiritual gifts are used in a disorderly fashion. Then again, it could simply be due to the fact that the Corinthians were "yet carnal" in many of their ways, one of which was in how they acted when under the influence of the Holy Spirit.
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"Of course we are concerned about people voting if they are dead," George Stanton, chief information officer for the New York State Board of Elections. Poughkeepsie Journal, October 29, 2006 |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2160
6/22/06 1:04 pm
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Rafael D Martinez |
a recent thread on this issue was posted here and i thought this older one would provide some other insights ..
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Acts-dicted
Posts: 7766
4/12/08 8:23 am
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muricewatsonsfriend |
just as much as you can speak your natural tongue any time you desire to.
- Darius |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 733
4/12/08 9:25 pm
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Ken Shelton |
Those who can, do...Those who cannot, don't...those who want to, try...those who are insecure try to get whole groups to speak in tongues. Go figure, it's human nature.
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Primum non nocere...Do no harm |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1052
4/12/08 9:47 pm
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Jason Adams |
I think some folks simply aren't grasping what some of us are saying.
I do not control the Holy Spirit.
But when I pray I am able to pray in tongues and in English. I don't have to work myself up to it or anything like that. I believe it is because I make myself available to the Holy Spirit not because I am in control.
For myself I would rather pray in tongues (and do so more than in English) because when I pray in tongues I know that I am praying the will of my Father. If I pray in English I may ask amiss, I will never do so when I pray in tongues.
There is far more going on in this world than any of us could imagine. By praying in tongues I may be praying about a dire situation some brother or sister is involved with on the other side of the world and, by praying in tongues help to bring about God's will in that situation. For me I would rather do that then have Him intervene in my own personal situation at that time.
I love Him enough to want what He wants! By praying in tongues I can do a little towards helping that come to pass. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1543
4/13/08 8:36 pm
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eagle1 |
I believe that we need to look at this subject in a wider perspective. The bible say's that they "were" filled with the Holy Ghost. As the Spirit "Gave" the utterance. (Past tense)
In my reading of the scripture I see that the gift was given and no where do I see that the gift was taken and regiven. I also see it as the utterence was given and no where do I see it was taken and had to be given again.
I have been given the power to speak english and to this point that power or ability has not been taken away. This means that I can speak english at will under the authority of that gift.
I believe that I was given the Holy Ghost with an utterance or power of speaking in tongues and the power was not taken away. I cannot find where the power is taken away and a regift must take place each time I speak in tongues.
Do we give a gift and reserve the power cord or does the power cord give us the ability to make full use of the gift? I believe God gave us the gift and the the power to operate that gift. I don't believe that this is something that is then taken away from us. We tarried for the gift and then was given the gift and the power to use that gift. We do not have to tarry or wait for permission to use the gift. IMHO
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www.lifechurchateaston.com
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Posts: 3841
4/14/08 9:50 am
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| God doesn't force anyone to speak in tongues so... |
doyle |
evidently we all do speak in tongues at will. I find no evidence in Scripture that God over-rides our will when we choose to speak in tongues "as the Spirit gives the utterance."
If we could decide not to speak in tongues it seems we could also choose to speak in tongues. Is there anyone who spoke in tongues without deciding to do so or allow the Spirit to do so through them?
Doyle
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Acts-celerate Owner
Posts: 6957
4/14/08 2:22 pm
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PureGold |
Absolutely. Of course it depends on ones understanding of the different operations of tongues. Did they teach us this in Pentecost? Are we talking "prayer language i.e. for personal edification-building yourself up in your most holy faith" "message in tongues for interpretation" or diversity of tongues?
The "words" come from heaven and are Spirit induced. We speak them by faith either the first time or every time afterward. Your prayer language is of God and can be spoken anytime 24/7. The Holy Spirits unction?....our error is that we do not seem to know He unctions all the time...
A spirit filled believer should be able to hear "tongues" in their spirit all of the time. I do, you mean....YOU Don't? If you can hear them then you can speak them. He is always speaking. He does not consider choosing to pray in tongues as blasphemous nor is it counterfeit. To many people only pray/speak in tongues when they are in desperate need, or have an emotion. Tongues in not and emotion based gift. When do you SING IN TONGUES? ANYTIME day or night.
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Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1057
3/4/10 5:36 pm
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JLA777 |
I believe you can...I do...It's a gift that God has given..It's right there on there on the inside of me. .God never said to me "Joany, only use this gift when I tell you you can ok" I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit a number of years back and all through the years and even up to this day, I sing and pray in tongues and I sing and pray in English, daily...they're both right there onside of me ready to come out at will... I love that...right before I sat down to the computer here, I was walking around my house singing / praying in tongues, at will...It always lifts.....
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Joany
May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen! Philemon 1:25
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8/16/10 5:16 pm
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