Actscelerate.com

Aaron Scott

Bound By Beaulah Posts: 1003 **7/4/13 8:41 am**

I have a news flash for you, Aaron!! A man who is a liar is not a man of God! The Word of God tells us a person who is a liar will go to hell! There will be no liars in heaven! There are liars in pulpits! there liars in leadership postions of denomanations and their are liars in pews, but there will be no liars in heaven! That is what God says! I'll take Gods Word over man!

I have seen my fare share of liars in the pulpits and leaders of denomanations, but unless they humblely repent I will not see them in heaven.
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Ronnie Lingerfelt A/K/A 4 golf.

4golf...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **7/4/13 10:27 am**

Um, not sure what that was about, but I completely agree.

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **7/4/13 10:51 am**

What a heart-breaking chain of events! To give your whole life and ministry to a denomination and a church and then see everything torn apart...my heart aches for what you & your family are going through. I will keep you in my prayers.

Someone asked how one person could have so much power. It is clearly written in the COG minutes that the state overseer makes the final decisions concerning pastors. He can move or remove pastors at will at any time in any congregation. Truly a scary thought.

I was touched to hear of the General Overseer's response and encouragement, and I'm glad you were able to talk to him personally.

It sounds as though you handled this in the best way you could at this point, Buck. The economy is wreaking havoc on many churches today. Those kinds of things are beyond your control. It sounds as though you have done your best to maintain your integrity in the midst of this turmoil. That is so important, and you will never regret doing so. It was the right choice at the right time. Some day when they are older, you will be able to look your children in the eye and assure them you did the best you knew to do, and you listened to the Lord.

I don't know you, but I am proud of how you handled this.

I surely hope the COG learns some kind of lesson from all of this heartache. Perhaps somewhere, someone else and some other church can be spared the pain you & your family & church have endured.
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Aaron, definitely one of your greatest of posts...

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11798 **7/4/13 11:56 am**

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Re: Folks, folks, folks...

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **7/4/13 12:01 pm**

Aaron

Bound By Beaulah Posts: 1003 **7/4/13 12:03 pm**

You said both were men of God, in your post . Some body is lying! I have never seen in the bible were liars were called men of God!
_________________
Ronnie Lingerfelt A/K/A 4 golf.

4golf and Quiet Wyatt...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **7/4/13 12:37 pm**

I am a bit upset that so many people here are so sure that the Church of God is wrong, wrong, wrong. Now, that is not to say that those in leadership didn't stumble a bit on this. But Bro. Marshall has been honest enough to clearly state that he made mistakes. Where is the balance?

A lie is a DELIBERATE FALSEHOOD. I doubt that either of these men deliberately told falsehoods. Yes, it could be that someone has, but I just doubt in this case that is what happened. From reading the events, it is clear that Bro. Marshall, whom I trust to be a man of integrity and of God, made some mistakes. It happens to all of us at times (and some--me--more often than that!).

At the same time, Bro. Dority no doubt DID receive some indication from the bank that the note was going to be called (Bro. Marshall confirmed, I believe, that the bank did intend to commence foreclosure proceedings in the next few days).

If I got an e-mail from my bank saying that my loan was going to be called, I would NOT say, "Well, it's not valid since they didn't send me anything via certified mail." So you can see that Bro. Marshall AND Bro. Dority saw the same info, but took it a bit different; Bro. Marshall looking at it from a more technical/legal point of view, while Bro. Dority is looking at it in terms of "this is getting ready to happen."

I noted that Bro. Marshall pointed out that Bro. Dority did not directly answer whether the HOLY SPIRIT had given him direction in this matter. Well, I will ask a similar question: "Did Bro. Marshall feel that the HOLY SPIRIT TOLD HIM TO LEAVE THE ENNIS CHURCH OF GOD?"

I realize that EVENTS and EMOTIONS perhaps made Bro. Marshall feel compelled to leave...just as events causes Bro. Dority to no doubt feel he had to make certain decisions. But I believe that Bro. Marshall was indeed called to the Ennis CHURCH OF GOD. Not a church IN Ennis, not the area of Ennis, but to the Ennis CHURCH OF GOD. I have taken his spiritual claims at face value. If that is the case, then I hope Bro. Marshall will realize that he is loved and that, even if it is difficult to do so, he should seek to stay exactly where God put him. Make the call, shed the tears, hug the necks of the brothers he is at odds with, and get back to what GOD called him to do.

Early on, Bro. Dority not only stepped back from removing Bro. Marshall, but even from suspending him. There was (is?) room for movement here. Why won't someone move? Reconciliation is surely one of the most beautiful gifts that God has given to us. And the most beautiful ministry. May it happen in Ennis before the sun goes down.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **7/4/13 12:45 pm**

The damage was already done in the first meeting. To remove a pastor on the basis of an email or voice mail is ridiculous. Either he lied or was inexcusably mistaken, or else the bank was disingenuous.

"Oh well nobody's perfect." You've got to be kidding me.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **7/4/13 12:57 pm**

By the way I'm NOT blaming "the Church of God" in this, since both Bro. Dority and Bro. Marshall were in the Church of God and this was an internal issue within the CoG. The way it was handled by Bro. Dority certainly led to Bro. Marshall feeling compelled to leave the CoG, but the plain fact is the state leadership are not any more "the Church of God" than a CoG pastor or congregation is.

This whole thing was a result of hasty judgment. Bro. Dority's backing off of his initial judgment proves this beyond reasonable doubt.

Quiet Wyatt...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **7/4/13 1:21 pm**

Indeed--Bro. Dority's stepping back indicates that he began to see it differently--that perhaps he had acted too hastily before.

So why can't that be fixed? Why can't Bro. Marshall and Bro. Dority make a phone call? Why can't one or both of them say, "Hey, this was bobbled--I'm sorry. I didn't make the best decision(s)"?

MUST it end like this? No one has gone too far for reconciliation. The problem is that pride doesn't want to hear that.

But you know what? Come Sunday, the work of God will continue right on. Perhaps a little less than it was before, but it won't stop. I implore everyone to make sure you are ON BOARD with what God is wanting to do. Yes, He'll use even broken situations...but He'd likely prefer to not have things broken to begin with.

Quiet Wyatt...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **7/4/13 1:27 pm**

My brother, if I got an e-mail from the bank that said that they were getting ready to foreclose on my house, and I knew that, indeed, I was behind several payments...I WOULD ABSOLUTELY TAKE IT SERIOUS.

So, it's not ridiculous at all for the Overseer to act on an e-mail, since he very well may have known that the church was behind on the mortgage.

I think the way it was handled after that could legitimately be questioned, but let's not act like he had no reason at all to act.

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1323 **7/4/13 1:36 pm**

Aaron,
Forgiveness is required of us. Trust and reconcilitaion is process and is not a requirement.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **7/4/13 1:36 pm**

I too would hope that reconciliation could be made somehow. It is hard to imagine how Bro. Dority could gain back the trust of the pastor and church at this point. What a shame. If only words could be taken back more easily.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **7/4/13 1:49 pm**

If the bank sent an email or voice mail threatening foreclosure, anyone would take it serious. Hopefully seriously enough to verify by calling the bank, arranging some kind of meeting with the banker, the pastor, and the local trustees to see if some kind of arrangement could be made to get the account current, refinance the loan, whatever.

As it turns out, even after Buck having raised the money in just a few days to get the note caught up to date, the state office now may lose the property anyway, unless they have the funds necessary to pay the note.

All for the want of a nail...

Maybe now it's time to pray

Acts Mod Posts: 25305 **7/4/13 1:55 pm**

Pray for a newer congregation being formed and praying for any who remain with the old church. Pray that God gives both the pastor and the AB wisdom as to how to handle the battles and problems ahead. Will there be a denominational reconciliation? Probably not.
But maybe a bigger one in the body of Christ. That would be more powerful.
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation

Acts-dicted Posts: 7604 **7/4/13 2:12 pm**

To me it's like a father/son thing...

Friendly Face Posts: 256 **7/4/13 2:22 pm**

Just change AB to father and local pastor to son. Son admits he borrowed a lot of money, made some bad decisions, but has every intention of paying back loan that the father is also responsible for. Father understands son it not trying to hurt him but that is the result of sons decisions. Father has already had money taken from his account to pay monies due a couple of years ago. If this had not happened son would have already been foreclosed on. Son allows payments to get behind again. Bank contacts father. Father reacts strongly (more strongly than some think he should).

As a father I probably would have reacted more than the son thought I should also. What happens when son is 2 or 3 months late on something father has co-signed" for? The father's reputation is hurt AND the next time he needs to borrow money he will likely pay more. For example if you credit score is in the 600s instead of 700s, you will pay more for a loan.

So the result of son paying late in many situations would be that the father may have to pay thousands of additional interest dollars to borrow money in the future. Being 3 months behind could cost father many times this down the road. Son probably has not thought about this.

If this loan only affected the local church it's one thing. Because it has the potential to affect thousands of other COG members, every possible effort should be made by the local church to keep this current.

If my son said he made every effort but still was buying things they were not 100% necessary, I would not be happy.

I think both men in this situation are great men. I don't question their motives. I just try to see things from each of their points of view. Both appear to be doing a good job in their respective positions.

Pastor Buck, I can understand that your feelings have been hurt. You feel that you weren't trusted. The AB does not have anything against you. He's just trying to do his job. He is not perfect. My guess is he probably has 10 churches in this same situation and he is trying to send a message about how strong he feels about keeping mortgages up to date.

I would hope that both parties can suck it up and get things back on track. Pastor Buck, nobody wants to take your building or remove you.

I understand this situation more than you think. I was on a church council a few years back when the church was behind on its mortgage. I personally had to deal with the AB and the bank and work things out. There were some tough days. It was very hard on my pastor. I wasn't happy with everything that happened, but we made it through it.

Pastor Buck, I would encourage you to get together with the AB and do whatever is needed to get things back together. You are obviously a great pastor and the COG needs you! It's not too late.

Don't make a permanent decision based on a temporary circumstance.

COGlayman--wonderful

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **7/4/13 2:35 pm**

I think that is a wonderful analogy--and why I think it needs to be reconciled.

Bottom Line

Member Posts: 46 **7/4/13 2:45 pm**

Lest we get caught in the back and forth of who is right and who is wrong in this situation, perhaps we should take care in not missing the greater issue here.

An AB, with no warning or allowance for preparations, was ready to put a pastor and his precious family on the streets in 48 hours.

Is this how we treat people with whom we are in covenant? Of course, I have observed, on a number of occasions that covenant is a term loosely thrown around by headquarters as a means to get their point across, much like "home missions" and "the Biblical mandate of the tithe of tithes".

As a layman and faithful lifetime member of the Church of God, this outrages me. I am not so sure that this way of doing business will not prove to be the downfall of this once great movement.

Hey Cleveland, the laity is watching this time and we're not happy. It seems to us that the only thing that matters to you is money. I don't want you to get another dime of mine. Perhaps if enough of felt this way and tithed to our local church, you might get the message. As a member, I would love to know more about how you're using our money, but as a lowly layman that info is forbidden to me.

Perhaps the IRS should look into your business dealings. If you are spending one penny received for home missions that is not spent for home missions, that is misappropriation of funds. Jim Bakker went to prison for much less.

Sorry for the rant. I've had enough.

(Now, I'll just wait for the typical response: "If you don't like it, leave it."
In 5, 4, 3, 2, 1,....)
_________________
"Without Freedom of Thought there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as Public Liberty, without Freedom of Speech." -Benjamin Franklin, writing as Silence Dogood

Re: 4golf and Quiet Wyatt...

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **7/4/13 3:20 pm**