Actscelerate.com

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/20/16 12:09 pm**

Yes, brotherjames, you mischaracterize quite frequently on Acts. When someone believes in healing, but maybe just not quite the same way as the WOF people teach it, you go off on a very intemperate rampage and start slinging accusations about people being skeptics and doubters and start calling people who subscribe to Pentecostal teachings John McArthur.
You also tend to put words in other posters' mouths. If I simply ask why ministries would be reluctant to provide documentation, you go off on a tangent about people being in unbelief.
We have covered the ground before about praying, "If it be thy will." It most certainly is not unscriptural and certainly not a sign of doubt to say that.
I would think that since not everyone you pray for is healed, you would show a little humility. And because the fruit of the Spirit includes self-control, I would expect you to exercise a little more of it in your dialogue.

Re: NBF

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **6/20/16 12:19 pm**

Re: NBF

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/20/16 12:23 pm**

Bonnie

Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **6/20/16 12:59 pm**

I live in a glass house and can take the stones. However, I heartily disagree with you. Praying "if it be thy will" is MOST ASSUREDLY a phrase of doubt. If I know His will concerning a subject, praying against that will is doubt.

Now, you may say since not everyone is healed, ergo it must not be the will of God to heal every one. I certainly am humble regarding healing. I said it is not me who heals and not everyone is healed that I pray for but nonetheless, I believe it is His will to heal every one. I see NO account in the scriptures where there were any who came to Jesus or His disciples that were NOT healed. Do you? His disciples, before they received the baptism could not cast out a demon and Jesus rebuked them for that.

I know the arguments about healing, I have written extensively refuting them. Understand something basic. Jesus did not heal as the Son of God, He healed as a man - filled with the Holy Spirit - otherwise He would never have told us in John 14 that after the Comforter came we - His disciples would do what He did and even greater works. Matt. 8:17 explains Isa 53:4-5 quite well.

I believe that if people aren't healed when I pray, it most likely is my problem, not theirs nor Jesus'. SO I am humbled when healing does occur. But, I expect all to be healed every time, every time.

I am dealing with two critical needs right now in our church. A godly lady of 71 was just given two day to a week to live. We are interceding on her behalf fervently as a body and as individuals. There is no doubt in me as to whether God will raise her up. Perhaps He might not but even just writing that causes me to ask God to forgive me for any lack of faith on my part. And if He doesn't, I will pray for the next one with just as much if not more faith than before. If you don't agree, fine but then why pray?

Is it not His will that NONE should perish? Then why are so many dying without Jesus?

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/20/16 1:04 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/20/16 1:07 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/20/16 1:15 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/20/16 1:23 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/20/16 1:31 pm**

Of course

Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **6/20/16 1:52 pm**

the Holy Spirit is the one who is healing through men and Jesus. I don't recall Hagin's teaching on this as I am not a Haginite but have read some of his teachings. Jesus did no miracles prior to be filled with the Holy Spirit and He tells His disciples tp tarry in Jerusalem until they too have what He promised them in John 14. The Holy Spirit is of course the Spirit of Jesus - the third person of the Trinity - so saying Jesus is the healer vs the Holy Spirit is the healer gets a bit muddled but we certainly are NOT the healers, merely the agents through who God (Jesus, Spirit, Father) are working.

And Mat. 8:3-4 merely makes my point even more so. The leper said "if you are willing" and Jesus replied, "I Will" or "I am willing". He was always and still is WILLING.

Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **6/20/16 1:57 pm**

MArk Ledbetter was wrong

the original post

Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **6/20/16 2:02 pm**

was a disparagement of Bill Johnson's ministry. Healing has been discussed here ad nauseam. I was mainly concerned with OTCP's mischaracterization of Bill's ministry.

Re: the original post

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **6/20/16 5:32 pm**

Just glad to know

Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **6/20/16 9:14 pm**

Some one besides Jesus who never made a mistake. Doesn't make someone's ministry suspect because he missed it with Bentley. Get over it.

Re: Just glad to know

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **6/21/16 1:31 am**

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **6/21/16 10:11 pm**

Re: Not a mischaracterization

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **6/21/16 10:13 pm**

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **6/21/16 11:49 pm**

I hosted a little get-together in my (rented) house in Jakarta back when I last lived there. One of the guests was a friend of a friend, I guess. I'd never seen him. He said he was a Gereja Bethel Indonesian (COG) preacher in Papua. He looked Papuan. Papuans look kind of like Australian Aborigines. They look kind of black, a bit like Africans, but often with a pronounced crease running down between the sides of the nose to the sides of the mouth.

During the time of sharing the word, he said something about the 144,000 that sounded Jehovah's Witness, and another preacher disagreed with him.

Later on, he said that he was dead for a year. His wife kept people from burying him, saying God was working on him. Then he said he came back to life. I asked him later what he experienced when he was dead. He said many things, but acted like he didn't want to go into detail. During a time of prayer, he prophesied some things over me that were kind of similar to another prophecy from someone else at a different place that I received around that time.

I heard another preacher from Indonesia who said he'd died. This one had had his head chopped 3/4 of the way off, from the back, and was healed or resurrected or whatever.

I heard him give his testimony one week at an Indonesian congregation in Ohio. I'm glad they didn't ask me to translate that week because his Timor accent was really hard for me to understand, so I missed bits and pieces. He was a Bible college student at a Bible college started through a ministry run by an Indonesian doctor and preacher who later ran for president. There was a Bible college, and I think they were involved in doing some evangelism to people from predominantly Mus|im groups. Some Mus|im extremists attacked the students and chopped this guys head mostly off.

Some people found him and took him to the hospital. My wife said he said he died. I didn't understand or recall all those details. But I remember he said the doctor/preacher laid hands on him and prayed for him. His necked healed up and he came back.
_________________
Link

Re: Bonnie

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **6/21/16 11:51 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/22/16 8:18 am**

Link, maybe you misunderstand what my question is with respect to documentation. What I'm saying is that high profile ministries do not seem to do any due diligence to verify if their claims of healing actually happened. Are the people who are shouting and throwing down their crutches still shouting next week?
In this day and time, how hard would it be to upload a video to youtube if a person who was cross eyed is healed? If a person is healed of cancer, wouldn't the ministry encourage the person healed to release a statement from their doctor.
I do believe in divine healing.
But I believe there are an awful lot of shenanigans going on by charlatans who want to present an appearance of a lot more divine healing than is actually happening.
I'm not expecting ministries to get bogged down in paperwork, but what is their motivation for being so hostile when people want to verify if what they claimed happened actually happened.
Again, don't misunderstand what I'm saying. If brotherjames claims to have witnessed healings, I would (despite our disagreements on WOF teachings), be inclined to believe his testimony because I believe he is being honest about that. But if a high profile ministry whose funding depends on "delivering miracles" claims someone is cured of cancer, I would like to know how that person is doing 6 months down the road.