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 Common Eschatological Teachings are Wrong? |
Mark Ledbetter |
What then, are the uncommon eschatological teachings that are right?
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10/31/16 10:01 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Posttrib might be uncommon and unpopular, but the idea of the rapture and the 2nd coming occuring at virtually the same time certainly has far more scriptural support than any one of the various 'secret rapture' theories (like the ever-popular pretrib theory). |
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10/31/16 2:04 pm
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| Re: Common Eschatological Teachings are Wrong? |
bradfreeman |
| Mark Ledbetter wrote: | | What then, are the uncommon eschatological teachings that are right? |
 Thomas messed you up, didn't he?
A common eschatological view - 1,000 years is 1,000 years
When Christ reigns for 1,000 years is it a literal 1,000 years or figurative (like the cattle on a 1,000 hills or a day being 1,000 years with the Lord)?
Doesn't it seem unwise in a book (Revelation) where a Lamb is not a lamb, a candlestick is a church and so much is figurative, to limit the reign of Christ to 1,000 years?
Doesn't it seem wiser to interpret reigning 1,000 years the way you do 1,000 hills of cattle or a day being 1,000 years (He owns them all, He exists beyond the boundaries of time, and of the increase of His kingdom and government there shall be no end)?
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Last edited by bradfreeman on 11/1/16 6:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-dicted
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10/31/16 2:04 pm
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| Re: Common Eschatological Teachings are Wrong? |
Resident Skeptic |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Mark Ledbetter wrote: | | What then, are the uncommon eschatological teachings that are right? |
Thomas messed you up, didn't he?
A common eschatological view - 1,000 years is 1,000 years
When Christ reigns for 1,000 years is it a literal 1,000 years or figurative (like the cattle on a 1,000 hills or a day being 1,000 years with the Lord)?
Doesn't seem unwise in a book (Revelation) where a Lamb is not a lamb, a candlestick is a church and so much is figurative, to limit the reign of Christ to 1,000 years?
Doesn't it seem wiser to interpret reigning 1,000 years the way you do 1,000 hills of cattle or a day being 1,000 years (He owns them all, He exists beyond the boundaries of time, and of the increase of His kingdom and government there shall be no end)? |
Here here.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
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10/31/16 2:45 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| It is definitely not the case that premillenialism limits the reign of Christ to 1000 years. |
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10/31/16 2:57 pm
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| to which thomas are you referring? |
Mark Ledbetter |
in eschatological terms and themes thomas has no reference point for me. I don't believe I'm messed up as Brad suggests.
You say too-may-tow, I say too-mah-tow. Let's just call the whole thing off.
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10/31/16 3:37 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| The eschatology posited by Jeremiah, Swindoll & J-Mac is solid. |
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10/31/16 6:41 pm
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| Others... |
Aaron Scott |
The whole thing of Jesus returning BEFORE the second coming is difficult to justify in scripture.
The notion that anyone really knows who the anti-Christ is.
The notion that the bad guys are (pick one): a huge computer in Brussels; the Russians; the Chinese; the European Common Market; the European Union; Muslims; the Internet. Everyone knows that the true villains are the Florida Gators. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
10/31/16 7:01 pm
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| Re: Others... |
Ernie Long |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | The whole thing of Jesus returning BEFORE the second coming is difficult to justify in scripture.
The notion that anyone really knows who the anti-Christ is.
The notion that the bad guys are (pick one): a huge computer in Brussels; the Russians; the Chinese; the European Common Market; the European Union; Muslims; the Internet. Everyone knows that the true villains are the Florida Gators. |
You forgot to mention Trump |
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11/1/16 8:37 am
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| Prophetic & Apocalyptic Themes |
Mark Ledbetter |
are well established by the Prophets and validated by Jesus and the Apostles.
Note: I refer to the themes...
What baffle's me is how we got from addressing the nations, the demise of America, and the references to the Beast/Son of Lawlessness to addressing the millennial issue.
From what I've read regarding the millennial it appears there is an amillennial position floating around, and this has been around since Augustine, who greatly influenced subsequent theologians who hold to a non-literal/symbolic rendering of the millennial recorded by John in Revelations 20:1-6, and possibly by Peter (2 Peter 3:8)
What is certain is that a both John and Peter, both Jewish in their orientation seem to follow a more Jewish Millennial view than one held by Christians today
Jewish Millennialism
The Babylonian Talmud teaches: “In the school of Elijah it is taught: The world, as we know it, was intended to exist for six thousand years--two thousand years in desolation [without Torah], two thousand years with Torah, and two thousand years of the Messiah's reign.
The Talmud also teaches: “In the school of Elijah it was taught: The righteous whom the Holy One will quicken will not return to the dust. You may ask, ‘In the thousand years during which the Holy One will renew His world, what will they do?"
This thousand year period is described as years of desolation, between the resurrection of the righteous during the Messiah's reign and the inauguration of the world-to-come. This refers to the Messianic Reign upon the earth. Tradition divides the history of man into six millenniums and in the following scheme:
The First Two Millennium ~ The Chaos Era
The Second Two Millennium ~ The Torah Era
The Third Two Millennium ~ The Messianic Era
The Seventh Millennium is the “Sabbath of the Earth,” the period in which the prophets spoke that features the Rule of Messiah in perfect peace and righteousness.
Christian Millennialism
Regardless of perspective, the Millennium serves as the centerpiece of eschatological debate and is based upon two passages – Revelation 20:17 and 2 Peter 3:8. It is interesting to note that it is only John that records the 1000 year reign and is found seven times in Revelation 20:1-7. It is without parallel except in Jewish Eschatology.
| Quote: | | "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time. Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:1-6) |
Christian tradition holds three views on the Millennium and is characterized as follows:
Pre-millennium — maintains Christ will personally appear on earth for the purpose of establishing his kingdom at the beginning of this millennium.
Post-millennial ~ the millennium should be viewed figuratively as an indefinitely long period of time where the kingdom is realized in the hearts of men until the second coming of Christ, the general resurrection and the last judgment.
A-millennial ~ interprets the millennium symbolically omitting an earthly millennium. It views the age in which we now live as a constant struggle between good and evil, and the triumph of good over evil will be realized with the coming of Christ in the midst of the struggle, and with the separation of souls at the final judgment .
Millennialism in Church History is a very complex issue. An early reference to Jesus’ 1000 year reign on earth is found in the writings of Papias of Heriapolis, a disciple of John that lived during the late first and early second centuries. While he makes no mention of a thousand year reign, Aristides’ (2nd century) eschatological expectations included a time of terrible judgment that is to come upon all mankind. Justin Martyr (2nd century) embraced the Messiah’s glorious return, the resurrection of the dead, and a 1000 year reign in the New Jerusalem.
Augustine systematized a non-literal view of the millennium and is responsible for an amillennial perspective. Amillennialism dominated the eschatological thought until premillennialism was revived at the turn of the 18th century when the works of Protestant theologian Johann Heinrich Alsted promoted an alternative to the dominant amillennial position.
Postmillennialism became popular during the 1st and 2nd Awakenings. Jonathan Edwards (c. 1740) viewed the 1st Awakening as the first step in the world’s complete Christianization and taught a postmillennial second coming. During the American Revolution, King George was depicted as the antichrist while the colonies represented the woman in the wilderness.
Between the American Revolution and the Civil War, most evangelical Protestants were postmillennialists and embraced its more optimistic views of the future. Lyman Beecher and Charles Finley viewed the 2nd Great Awakening (1790-1840) as a sign of the millennium.
Premillennialism found further support in nineteenth century pastor, leader, and theologian of the Plymouth Brethren, Englishman John Nelson Darby. Darby devised an interpretive tool that would drastically depart from the general eschatological position of the Church accepted by the Roman, Anglican, and Protestant Churches that embraced the amillennial position.
Although modified since presented, it is John Nelson Darby who created Dispensationalism as an interpretative tool, as well as introduced the Rapture Doctrine held by most evangelicals.
So, the above is a historical overview without prejudice or bias.
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God-Honoring
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Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2109
11/1/16 10:12 am
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| Re: Others... |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | | The whole thing of Jesus returning BEFORE the second coming is difficult to justify in scripture. |
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Posts: 15570
11/1/16 11:38 am
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