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Lairdon's "God's Generals." The More I Read, the More I Distance Myself from Them

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **1/4/18 7:35 pm**

The more I read about so many (not ever single one) a these "GENERALS," hey, the more I wanna distance maself from such. So many of em, not only were they not generals, they weren't even privates in the true army a God.

Fruit, Nuts, Flakes = Cereal Saints.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **1/4/18 8:01 pm**

I listened to a Kuhlman sermon recently and it would be hard to imagine a more narcissistic, self-centered presentation. She claimed she was going to be preaching solely about Jesus that night, but talked about herself for at least 40 minutes before so much as mentioning anything else. I say at least 40 minutes because that was the extent of what I could take. And I don't mean that she was talking about things God did in her ministry -- I mean she was talking about herself. The positive things people said about her. The positive things family said about her.

It's hard to imagine why someone would think to include her, McPherson, Branham, etc. in any list of "generals". There are a few people in the book I'm not familiar with, and do think well of Evan Roberts. But the majority of the people in the book definitely make you Shocked

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Otcp you are pathetic

Friendly Face Posts: 219 **1/4/18 8:38 pm**

Your assessment reveals your spiritual immaturity and shallowness.

Re: Otcp you are pathetic

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **1/4/18 8:52 pm**

Re: Otcp you are pathetic

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **1/4/18 8:59 pm**

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **1/5/18 8:33 am**

If Ray Hughes isn't listed as 4 star General - that book is fake news. Twisted Evil

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[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **1/5/18 10:13 am**

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **1/5/18 10:34 am**

Having been in several Kuhlman meetings

Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **1/5/18 10:34 am**

your negative comments about her show your ignorance of her. Out of all of those Generals she, Smith Wigglesworth, Maria Etter, Evan Roberts, John G Lake, Parham and Seymour stand on the shoulders of no one. Dowie went crazy but his ministry saw more miracles of healing than about anyone ever besides Jesus. THe same can be said for Allen. Jack Coe was a man of integrity raised up wrongly by the AG to supplant Allen whom they disfellowshiped over racial issues. Were some of those previously mentioned quirky? Yep. Was Kuhlman dramatic? You bethcha. So what? When your ministry comes even close to any of these in results, I'll listen to your comments until then, best not to run down what you don't know.

A close personal friend of mind was Arthur Burt, who died at the age of 102. I knew him for 22 years. Charisma magazine once did a spread about him (look it up) as a "Pioneer of Pentecost". The man had more anointing and more wisdom in his little finger than any 100 pastors I could gather including me. "Uncle" Arthur was from England and traveled as a young man with Wigglesworth. He said Smith was quirky personally and in the flesh missed it often. He said he was headstrong and abrasive. Most of our churches would be aghast at how he operated but Arthur also said while it is wrong for the church today to ever glorify Wigglesworth or any man, that in the Spirit, he never missed it. And he never saw anyone with the kind of anointing Smith had. Arthur was the most humble man I ever met. One day he was supposed to be speaking at my church and he was late. I called his driver and said where are you? He said we're are at the local Goodwill store in our town. Arthur forgot his suitcase - he left it in Wales (where he was from) and needs some clothes, we'll be right there. Arthur didn't care if there was 2000 or 20 people to minister to, his only consideration was where was the Spirit directing him to be. I have tried to lead my life in the same way. Holy Spirit, what do You want? Most of these Generals you mention tried to do the same. Many let their flesh get in the way. But to castigate what you do no know and dwell on the quirks kind of misses the bigger picture, don't you think?

Re: Having been in several Kuhlman meetings

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **1/5/18 12:03 pm**

Shall we also dismiss all that Solomon wrote because he went off the rails later?

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **1/5/18 12:30 pm**

A. A. Allen certainly had/has his critics. But if R.W. Schambach thought highly of him, I will take that testimony over the testimony of his critics any day.

Many wonderful men of God have had far worse that "quirks" in their lives. No one could out-preach Ronald Brock...yet he had a moral derailment. He eventually found his way back, but shall we dismiss all the incredible preaching and blessing the his life brought? NO.

I was not particularly a Kuhlman fan, but that is based on much ignorance and SOLELY on hearing a tape of her or something. I just preferred the more stereotypical Pentecostal expression.

Wigglesworth? It is claimed that he had an affair. GASP! So it was ALL fake???

There's not one of us that is worthy to have God work through us. And some of us are even less worthy than others (I include myself here). Yet God does it time and time and time again. Do you reckon He has a clue?

Look, Benny Hinn is someone that...well, a little bit of him goes a long way with me. I'm just not a fan of the theatrics. Yet a Baptist friend of min said that whatever Hinn was, it was still the case that God healed my friend's brother when he went to a Hinn crusade.

I've never fallen out, but the worship portion of a Hinn crusade (as seen on TV, etc.) is about as good as it gets, I think.

T.L. Lowery was certainly flamboyant, and yet I have never doubted that he was a man of God (and one, incidentally, that I really enjoyed).

Perry Stone catches it for his "secret sources," yet the man is no doubt reaching more people than any 500 Church of God pastors combined (not including Jentzen Franklin, I imagine). But like the cat who went to the palace, all we can see is the mouse under the throne, so to speak.

Yes, it's hard to overlook flaw in men of God. We will give regular church members a lot more latitude than we will men of God. Certainly, if it is a MORAL or DOCTRINAL failure, we need to especially hold men of God responsible, since it can not only cause them to be lost to the Kingdom, but can bring a reproach. But just because someone is "out there" in some things doesn't disqualify them or make them less of a man of God. It simply means that person is not your cup of tea.

Think of like we think of music. If you can't stand the Redback, then, well, besides being a godless sinner, it just might be that it is a matter of--egads!--TASTE. Others like music that I can't stand and, frankly, wonder if it IS of God. But in truth there is a wide range of music, all of which glorifies God and is doctrinally sound, that can speak to the church and the world. To dismiss one of these genres just because it's not YOUR cup of tea, well, that would be too bad...because you might be dismissing something that has been a tremendous blessing to someone, perhaps helping them hold on to God through difficult times.

Same with God's Generals. There were some cut-ups and quirky types, no doubt. But if God placed His touch on them, don't let the outside keep you from the good things God did by and through them.

Baloney

Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **1/5/18 12:32 pm**

You are running them down and I did not mean to imply Dowie or anyone else surpassed Peter and the Disciples but from what I've read about Zion City and what Bosworth and Lake said about Dowie, the anointing was certainly extreme upon him.

Whether every one of those "generals" fully embraced orthodoxy as yuou define it or not does not preclude the fact that God used them extraordinarily. As I said before on another thread, many of our Pentecostal forefathers understanding of scripture and the move of the Spirit were surely flawed to our understanding. But, and it's a big but, you have no right to run them down because of it. And you do thus all the time. Personal flaws, quirks, even sin notwithstanding is worth mentioning but you cannot discount how God used them. I have NEVER seen the gift of a word of knowledge manifested in anyone (beyond Jesus andtthe apostles) as it was in Kuhlman.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/5/18 1:03 pm**

I am a very avid reader of Pentecostal history. I have never heard Wigglesworth had an affair. In fact, I have never heard any allegations against him of any moral impropriety at all.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/5/18 1:11 pm**

I read Liardonâ€™s book in the late 1990s. As I recall, Liardonâ€™s most important qualification for â€˜Godâ€™s Generalsâ€™ was if their ministries were noted for a lot of signs and wonders. There were a few exceptions, but the distinct impression I received from his book was that the REALLY great men and women of God were the ones with big ministries noted for the miraculous.

Re: Baloney

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **1/5/18 1:11 pm**

Acts-dicted Posts: 9027 **1/5/18 1:39 pm**

Thanks OTCP, for giving us another opportunity to rake around in the muck of other men's lives...even dead ones!
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Re: Shall we also dismiss all that Solomon wrote because he went off the rails later?

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **1/5/18 3:29 pm**

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **1/5/18 3:36 pm**

On of my Favorite Movies is "Leap of Faith" with Steve Martin, Liam Neeson, Debra Winger.

Steve's ministry also had many "signs and wonders." Some faked - but some real.

I often wonder if many of the healings that are performed by these large ministries were simply because folks got around a bunch of other folks that were focused on faith - and that agreement led to their healing - and the evangelist him or herself had nothing to do with it.

The determining factor was: The folks came expecting it - and thus received.

Which begs the question - did God use the "fake" stuff to increase their faith?
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today!

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **1/5/18 3:55 pm**

I think it's easy to explain why miracles do happen around the ministries of false teachers. It's because God is loving and merciful and has great compassion on people who are needy. In my opinion, that makes it doubly important that we evaluate ministers on the basis of their doctrine, as Scripture repeatedly commands. Miracles will happen in the midst of false teaching -- because God is God and He has great mercy on His people when they come to Him in need. Woe to the man who claims that mercy as proof that his false teaching is valid, and woe to those who will not obey Scripture concerning that man's doctrine and teaching because God did a miracle in a meeting he was holding.

We are given an objective, external, and simple way of measuring whether someone is a legitimate teacher in Christ's church, but we refuse to use it despite being repeatedly commanded to do so.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/5/18 4:35 pm**

Matt 7:21 NASB â€œNot everyone who says to Me, â€˜Lord, Lord,â€™ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, â€˜Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?â€™ 23 And then I will declare to them, â€˜I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.â€™

Jesus apparently places greater value on obedience (doing the will of the Father, not practicing lawlessness/iniquity) than on apparent charismatic abilities.