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 Re: In other words |
roughridercog |
| Da Sheik wrote: | | roughridercog wrote: | Some know they have it and are afraid they might lose it.
The others know they can't lose it, but are afraid they don't have it.
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Nice summation Rough
Aaron makes a good point too. Most of what we argue about re: this topic revolves around semantics. |
Semantics game.
For example, does "falling away from the faith" mean that the person is going to hell?
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25305
11/23/16 1:12 pm
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Bro Bob |
Mark 13:13 ESV
And you will be hated by all for my names sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
2 Thess 2:3 KJV
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Matt 10:33 ASV
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven.
All won't endure.
Some will be deceived and will fall away.
Anyone who denies Christ, He will also deny before the Father. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3944
12/7/16 3:54 pm
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bradfreeman |
| Bro Bob wrote: | Matt 10:33 ASV
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven.
Anyone who denies Christ, He will also deny before the Father. |
How did Peter get by with this?
John 14:36 Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, where are You going?” Jesus answered, “Where I go, you cannot follow Me now; but you will follow later.” 37 Peter said to Him, “Lord, why can I not follow You right now? I will lay down my life for You.” 38 Jesus *answered, “Will you lay down your life for Me? Truly, truly, I say to you, a rooster will not crow until you deny Me three times. 1 “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
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Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
12/8/16 6:21 am
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Bro Bob |
Oops. I forgot all about that. I guess Jesus lied when he said it. Like God lied when he said they would die if they ate the fruit of the forbidden tree.
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Well, I just sinned. Now I must repent: I lied when I said I forgot this story. Forgive me. In fact, though we love to bash Peter, in Matt 26:31 Jesus tells them all they will fall away "on account of me." It is a reference to the fulfillment of the prophesy of Zechariah 13:6-7 But we don't speak much of the absence of all the other disciples during this time.
To any interested readers: Why would a man stop at this point in the story if truth is what he espoused? Only a deceiver would stop here, insinuating Jesus didn't really mean it, or worse, that he lied.
Fortunately, that was not the last we heard from Peter. In fact, the very next thing we learn is that Jesus' eyes met Peter's and he went out and wept bitterly.
I am going to take a gigantic leap of assumption and suppose that Peter felt severe anguish over his failure, and that it is this example that other Christians who fail ought to follow.
Any doctrine of entitlement to sin in any way and as often as one might wish, and to do it without sincere remorse for the pain that failure brings to a savior who gave everything is a false doctrine. It is a deceptive doctrine. It is the very same doctrine with which the serpent deceived Eve, "You shall not surely die."
After Christ had returned to the Father, this same Peter would tell Simon, the ex-sorcerer, that though he had been saved, and had been baptized, his heart was not right and that to get it right he would need to repent of this wickedness that had been revealed to remain within him, though he was already a follower. And again, fortunately, the last thing we heard from Simon, the already saved, was words of regret and repentance, asking for Peter to pray on his behalf for his eternal soul.
Deceivers deceive. It is what they do. That is why the followers of Christ are so often warned about coming deceptions.
Be not deceived. God is not mocked. Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. <<< THAT is TRUTH! EXPECT the deceiver to tell you he didn't really mean it!
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I wrote this response for others who might read it, and as a rebuke to the deceiver.
I would address Mr Freeman personally, but his heart is not open to truth.
Last edited by Bro Bob on 12/8/16 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3944
12/8/16 1:34 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Bro Bob wrote: | Oops. I forgot all about that. I guess Jesus lied when he said it. Like God lied when he said they would die if they ate the fruit of the forbidden tree.
................
Well, I just sinned. Now I must repent: I lied when I said I forgot this story. Forgive me. In fact, though we love to bash Peter, in Matt 26:31 Jesus tells them all they will fall away "on account of me." It is a reference to the fulfillment of the prophesy of Zechariah 13:6 But we don't speak much of the absence of all the other disciples during this time.
To any interested readers: Why would a man stop at this point in the story if truth is what he espoused? Only a deceiver would stop here, insinuating Jesus didn't really mean it, or worse, that he lied.
Fortunately, that was not the last we heard from Peter. In fact, the very next thing we learn is that Jesus' eyes met Peter's and he went out and wept bitterly.
I am going to take a gigantic leap of assumption and suppose that Peter felt severe anguish over his failure, and that it is this example that other Christians who fail ought to follow.
Any doctrine of entitlement to sin in any way and as often as one might wish, and to do it without sincere remorse for the pain that failure brings to a savior who gave everything is a false doctrine. It is a deceptive doctrine. It is the very same doctrine with which the serpent deceived Eve, "You shall not surely die."
After Christ had returned to the Father, this same Peter would tell Simon, the ex-sorcerer, that though he had been saved, and had been baptized, his heart was not right and that to get it right he would need to repent of this wickedness that had been revealed to remain within him, though he was already a follower. And again, fortunately, the last thing we heard from Simon, the already saved, was words of regret and repentance, asking for Peter to pray on his behalf for his eternal soul.
Deceivers deceive. It is what they do. That is why the followers of Christ are so often warned about coming deceptions.
Be not deceived. God is not mocked. Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. <<< THAT is TRUTH! EXPECT the deceiver to tell you he didn't really mean it!
........................
I wrote this response for others who might read it, and as a rebuke to the deceiver.
I would address Mr Freeman personally, but his heart is not open to truth. |
Terribly sad but true, Bro Bob. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
12/8/16 1:53 pm
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| Scripture seems clear |
Bullseye77 |
Heb 12:14 (King James Version)Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Heb 12:15 (American Standard Version) looking carefully lest [there be] any man that falleth short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble [you], and thereby the many be defiled;
Heb 12:15 (Modern King James Version) looking diligently lest any fail of the grace of God, or lest any root of bitterness springing up disturb [you], and by it many are defiled,
Heb 12:15 (Weymouth's New Testament) Be carefully on your guard lest there be any one who falls back from the grace of God; lest any root bearing bitter fruit spring up and cause trouble among you, and through it the whole brotherhood be defiled;
Heb 12:15 (World Englisg Bible) looking carefully lest there be any man who falls short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and many be defiled by it;
Heb 12:15 (Young's Literal Translation) looking diligently over lest any one be failing of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness springing up may give trouble, and through this many may be defiled;
Heb 12:15 (Bible in Basic English) Looking with care to see that no man among you in his behaviour comes short of the grace of God; for fear that some bitter root may come up to be a trouble to you, and that some of you may be made unclean by it;
Heb 12:15 (Montgomery's New Testament) Look carefully that there be no one who falls back from the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springs up to trouble you, and by its means many become defiled.
Heb 12:15 (New King James Version) looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;
Heb 12:15 (Living Oracles New Testament) carefully observing, lest any one come short of the favor of God; lest some bitter root springing up, trouble you, and by it many be polluted;..
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On Target!! |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1441
12/13/16 12:11 pm
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bradfreeman |
| Bro Bob wrote: | | Any doctrine of entitlement to sin in any way and as often as one might wish, and to do it without sincere remorse for the pain that failure brings to a savior who gave everything is a false doctrine. It is a deceptive doctrine. It is the very same doctrine with which the serpent deceived Eve, "You shall not surely die." |
Jesus is 2,000 years past feeling pain for our sins. He put them away and now sits at rest in joy.
God didn't kill Adam for eating.
Adam died because he tried to be like God and find life in the knowledge of his own good and evil, apart from the life God freely breathed into him. He fell into the curse of toiling and sweating for his bread.
There is no life apart from Life.
As for Peter, I simply asked how you reconcile Jesus statement that if you deny Him, He will deny you. Jesus didn't add any cure for this denial...like, unless you apologize, I'll deny you.
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
12/13/16 4:25 pm
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Bro Bob |
| Quote: | | Adam died because he tried to be like God and find life in the knowledge of his own good and evil, apart from the life God freely breathed into him. He fell into the curse of toiling and sweating for his bread. ~ Freeman |
It took less than a moment to recall where I heard this heresy before. It is almost verbatim.
Genesis 3:5 | Quote: | | For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. |
God is not the speaker in Genesis 3:5, the serpent is. Sir, you are espousing the exact same thing the serpent said. It is quite literally the doctrine of devils.
Fortunately we don't have to wonder about true doctrine on this matter. Only 12 verses later we have the creator speaking for himself.
| Quote: | | 17 And to Adam, God said, Because you listened to your wife and ate the fruit when I told you not to, I have placed a curse upon the soil. All your life you will struggle to extract a living from it. 18 It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you shall eat its grasses. 19 All your life you will sweat to master it, until your dying day. Then you will return to the ground from which you came. |
Adam did not die because he tried to be like God as you say and as the serpent said. God told him exactly why he would die:
1) You listened to your deceived wife instead of me.
2) You did exactly what I told you NOT to do.
To Satan, that old serpent: The Heavenly Father says your days of deception are nearing their end. You will have a final crescendo of success, there will be a great falling away from my eternal truth, then... a millennium of silence from you. There won't be even one web site to give you voice. There will be peace for all who have believed me. You won't be there to disrupt it. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3944
12/15/16 8:02 pm
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