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 lord chance |
KevinWallace |
This is an opinion board...
Joshua's opinion matters as much as yours or anyone else's. Thank you for the domineering, dictatorial behavior that successfully compllements your title "lord". We get it... You are right. However, we would appreciate it if you would end the "you don't matter" treatment when something that doesn't sit well with your interpretive mechanism. We are all adults here. At least I assume you are.
Thanks
Ps otherwise you post some good stuff
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Once I thought was wrong, but...I was mistaken |
Friendly Face
Posts: 441
8/26/11 11:15 pm
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Tracy S Hamilton |
| Kyle Morrow wrote: | | The point I was making is this. And I am in not referring to Tom. Again, I am not referring to Tom. But, what I have found out as a pastor is the people that give me the most problems, the ones that are the first to point fingers and look for some type of conspiracy do not pay their tithes. It isn't much different with the denomination. The very guys calling for "transparency" do not make an effort to keep their end of the commitment, and the ones that do lie on their reports. When we have churches that average over 300 in morning worship, but report $3000 on their tithes or churches that average 2,000 in worship and report $70,000 a month in tithes we have a problem. |
Just one simple question? How do you know someone is lying about their situation? If that is what a church reports, just because you don't think it is right, doesn't mean that you are right.
Some harsh things have been said. I was in a situation early on when it came down to sending in the TOT or myself being paid and being able to pay the church's bills and my own personally. When I called to tell them the situation.... here is what I was told....... "Well, the minutes say you must send in the TOT".... my response was.... "so you are telling me that it is more important for me to send in the "TOT" than it is for me to pay the church bills and pay my personal bills?" The reply was..... "Well, you have a decision to make." I made the decision. I took care of the church and I took care of my family.
Any person who would not take care of his family FIRST above even sending in a TOT is not mature enough for ministry.... in my opinion!! |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2714
8/26/11 11:43 pm
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| Re: I was done posting to this, but you guys won't let it di |
Tracy S Hamilton |
| Joshua Henson wrote: | Kyle...I'm drinking the same Kool-Aid...lol
I have found something interesting beginning to happen in the COG...My minister friends who are my age (30 and below) are surprisingly fine with the COG and their level of disclosure. (I think it really becomes a matter of the difference between Gen X and Gen Y)
This disclosure thing seems to be a battle for the older guys. I guess we've just not been in it long enough to become bitter...(okay, that was wrong, but I was just kidding...lol  ) 
My concern is this...everything keeps pointing back to something that occurred a decade ago...something about the building of the HQ's. I have no clue about it.
Why are we blaming the current EC for indiscretions that MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE occurred in 2000? For a group that always talks about moving forward with our missional objectives, we seem to be stuck in the past on this issue.
We can't blame the EC for the monies lost to evangelism and WM. The ministers voted for the TOT reduction. I think it was a bad move personally.
I am with Kyle. I believe the COG is in complete compliance with the minutes. I'm not worried about chronology or dates. I'm concerned about NOW and the FUTURE.
I think its time to move on, get over it, etc. I'm sorry that HQ didn't provide the level of disclosure necessary about the HQ project. BUT...we are in compliance now. That's all that matters. You're asking them to fix a failure of past administrations. Why should they? Their job is to pick of the up the pieces and move forward from where they are, not go backwards and try to fix every issue.
While we're fixing 2000, let's go back and fix 1923 too! Some people think there was a conspiracy there too!
Blessings guys! |
Josh,
I don't know you so this is nothing personal. But some keep talking about churches lying on their reports and not being truthful. The talk is about integrity. I think you would agree, that leadership starts at the TOP. In this case that would be HQ. So if HQ is wanting churches to be "faithful" with the TOT, then they should be faithful with what the governing body has decided.
Psalm 133 talks about Unity and how Unity is like the "oil." Oil in scripture is a type and symbol of the "anointing." What this tells me is this: if we want the anointing, then we must be in Unity. This passage also tells us where Unity starts. It says that it is like the oil that was poured on the "HEAD" of Aaron. From the "head" it began to flow outward and downward until "it was as if the dew of Herman were falling on Mt. Zion." Mt. Zion is a type and symbol of the church.
While churches should report what comes in marked "tithe" on the envelope and pay their TOT, we cannot expect something to flow from the ground up. We cannot expect churches to do more than than HQ themselves, no matter how noble we think it sounds.
As far as the statements about it "being in the past," you are correct. So what you are telling me is that as long as someone just waits long enough and doesn't abide by the mandate of the governing body, then we can just say... "hey, that was a long time ago," and everything is OK. If we do that can the same not be said about churches who have not reported or sent in the TOT, that what has happened (not sending in the TOT) was a long time ago, so why don't we just forget about it and just start where they are today. Can we not say.... "that is in the past".... and that those who think it should be paid they are just.. "stuck in the past?"
Tracy |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2714
8/27/11 12:13 am
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mytimewillcome |
I think churches should be like cars. If you haven't made your payment in 3 months, repossess it and give someone else a go at it.
There are plenty of eligible clergy out there that deserve a chance if someone can't get something going. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3658
8/27/11 12:14 am
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Mighty Army |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | | C. Chris Moody wrote: | | In fact, I spoke to someone today who stated emphatically that we can go and view these reports. |
Who said that? |
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Friendly Face
Posts: 326
8/27/11 10:59 am
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