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 Should we remove our church from COG? Serious replies only! |
Unidentified |
I am about to throw out a question to you all. I ask only that serious replies be made. Please, no cynical answers or bashing.
Our church is making a very serious consideration to remove ourselves from the COG. This is not a move of disgust or anger. We are "one of a kind" in style in our entire state. You may label us emergent or seeker driven....whatever. The fact is, we have no network of churches to associate with, unless we are like the other churches. The state has no resources whatsoever, and not just financially speaking. Lastly, we are offered no leadership or pastoral training on a continual basis.
We look at other groups or movements and find these things on a continual basis. So, my question is this: Why should our church continue to remain a part of this organization? Why should we continue to pay our 15% tax to the state and international levels, who coincidentally, is supposed to be serving the local church?
I state this question in a serious tone and not in anger. Please reply!
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Hey, DOC
Posts: 92
3/24/07 7:22 pm
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KevinLloyd |
You're right in everything that you said. To me, all that you said is reason enough to go out on your own. Here are the only suggestions that I would have:
- Can you make a difference in the denom? Can you sit down across the table from some "higher up" and tell them what you're feeling? Maybe a better way to say this is "do you want" to do these thing? If you want to make a difference in the denom...then don't leave. If you don't care...leave. I would think it would only be frustrating to stay in if you really don't care all that much about it.
- Be sure to have an organization/association/etc to hook up with. People who are very relational. If you don't have that...I could see it being lonely.
Good luck.
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Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/24/07 7:39 pm
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| That would be nice.... |
Unidentified |
| KevinLloyd wrote: | You're right in everything that you said. To me, all that you said is reason enough to go out on your own. Here are the only suggestions that I would have:
- Can you make a difference in the denom? Can you sit down across the table from some "higher up" and tell them what you're feeling? Maybe a better way to say this is "do you want" to do these thing? If you want to make a difference in the denom...then don't leave. If you don't care...leave. I would think it would only be frustrating to stay in if you really don't care all that much about it.
- Be sure to have an organization/association/etc to hook up with. People who are very relational. If you don't have that...I could see it being lonely.
Good luck. |
It would be nice to be able to bring change...but can you honestly say that it's possible? Look at our leadership. They don't understand a new movement. They are ignorant at how to relate to me let alone a changing culture. Like I said, its not a move of anger, but rather disappointment. When you have no hope, you have nothing. There is no hope in the COG.
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Keep guessing...you're not even close! |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 92
3/24/07 7:44 pm
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| Re: That would be nice.... |
Memory03 |
| Unidentified wrote: | | There is no hope in the COG. |
if l were that miserable... l would have left long ago... why are you still in the CoG? how long have your been credentialed in the CoG? you being the only church in your state that is like yours makes me wonder who is wrong... if it was so great of a style, why aren't others following in your footsteps?
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Be Blessed!
Memory03
8233 post at the original Acts Board...
Real Men get their haircut in a Barber Shop... The rest go to beauty parlors... |
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Posts: 21953
3/24/07 8:00 pm
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| Re: That would be nice.... |
Unidentified |
| Memory03 wrote: | | Unidentified wrote: | | There is no hope in the COG. |
if l were that miserable... l would have left long ago... why are you still in the CoG? how long have your been credentialed in the CoG? you being the only church in your state that is like yours makes me wonder who is wrong... if it was so great of a style, why aren't others following in your footsteps? |
Before you point the finger of how wrong I am for the style of church, we are already in the top 10 in attendance out of over 100 churches!
First of all, I am not miserable. I wouldn't trade what I am doing for the world. I simply said there is no hope in this organization. Your narrow minded comments suggest that. Your comments point to the exact attitude of the leadership I have spoken about. That's why there is no hope. Bless God, we have always done it this way and this way is right! Blah blah blah.
Second, we are the only church of our kind because the average aged pastor here is 57. I am much younger and think differently. Others don't follow the style because they have never had anyone to follow. Apparently the old way of doing things hasn't faired too well here either given how broke the state is and how small the average church is here. 35-40
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Keep guessing...you're not even close! |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 92
3/24/07 8:18 pm
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| I just can't believe it... |
Unidentified |
Out of over 40 hits on this thread, only two people could give a suggestion....only one worth reading, really.
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Keep guessing...you're not even close! |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 92
3/24/07 8:21 pm
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| Have you prayed about this? |
Layperson |
I believe I would spend lots of time in prayer and perhaps some fasting before you took this step.
It is a big step and you could be sorry some day. Being young and progressive you could be a leader some day...then you could really change things. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1747
3/24/07 8:29 pm
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| Re: That would be nice.... |
Memory03 |
| Unidentified wrote: | | Memory03 wrote: | | Unidentified wrote: | | There is no hope in the COG. |
if l were that miserable... l would have left long ago... why are you still in the CoG? how long have your been credentialed in the CoG? you being the only church in your state that is like yours makes me wonder who is wrong... if it was so great of a style, why aren't others following in your footsteps? |
Before you point the finger of how wrong I am for the style of church, we are already in the top 10 in attendance out of over 100 churches!
First of all, I am not miserable. I wouldn't trade what I am doing for the world. I simply said there is no hope in this organization. Your narrow minded comments suggest that. Your comments point to the exact attitude of the leadership I have spoken about. That's why there is no hope. Bless God, we have always done it this way and this way is right! Blah blah blah.
Second, we are the only church of our kind because the average aged pastor here is 57. I am much younger and think differently. Others don't follow the style because they have never had anyone to follow. Apparently the old way of doing things hasn't faired too well here either given how broke the state is and how small the average church is here. 35-40 |
we have some seeker/emergent congregations in wnc... if you would like l will get you some contact information... if it were me l would contact Dr. Marty Baker/Travis Johnson... they are successful at what you do...
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Be Blessed!
Memory03
8233 post at the original Acts Board...
Real Men get their haircut in a Barber Shop... The rest go to beauty parlors... |
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Posts: 21953
3/24/07 8:33 pm
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| If you're wanting reassurance, |
youngleader |
Then you'll only get it from a few people here. Most on here are COG all the way. That's ok because it's mostly a COG board.
I agree with Kevin. You have to evaluate this on your own. If you get any advice here, it could run the complete scope from people telling you that simply by thinking what you are that you'll burn in hell, to others telling you to pull out tomorrow.
Kevin gave good advice. If you don't need the COG and they don't need you, then so be it. Otherwise, stick around and make a difference.
I'm hijacking here, but I for one wonder how a young person could actually start an emergent church within the COG these days. According to GDM's recent article in the Evangel, I think he wants more missional churches, but personally, I don't see a lot of missional-minded young guys being attracted to the COG.
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http://brandonbryanbowers.blogspot.com |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1499
3/24/07 8:35 pm
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| Hey Unidentified... |
Louis Morgan |
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Travis Johnson |
| From a totally selfish perspective, I'd say don't go. I've watched too many people in my generation go or get the left foot of fellowship. I've also seen too many get trained in our schools only to take an opportunity elsewhere (which I totally understand). The list is long and the people are excellent. Don't add to the list. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
3/24/07 8:44 pm
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| Re: That would be nice.... |
Pastor Gary |
| Unidentified wrote: | | Second, we are the only church of our kind because the average aged pastor here is 57. I am much younger and think differently. |
HEY! I am 56 and pastor an extremely non-traditional, contemporary church. (Just wanted to point out that it is less a matter of AGE and more a matter of mindset.)
If you were in my state, I'd love to have you in fellowship with us... but man, would THAT open a massive can of worms??  
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I reserve the right to own my words and thoughts without edits. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3530
3/24/07 8:56 pm
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| The practical issues. |
sheepdogandy |
Does the Church of God own your property?
If the deed is in the name of Cleveland C/G.
You may as well begin to look for other facilities.
We came out from under Cleveland control in 1989.
Your congregation can succeed without Cleveland affiliation.
I suggest you incorporate the congregation once your ties with Cleveland are severed.
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Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
3/24/07 9:04 pm
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| Re: That would be nice.... |
KevinLloyd |
| Unidentified wrote: | | KevinLloyd wrote: | You're right in everything that you said. To me, all that you said is reason enough to go out on your own. Here are the only suggestions that I would have:
- Can you make a difference in the denom? Can you sit down across the table from some "higher up" and tell them what you're feeling? Maybe a better way to say this is "do you want" to do these thing? If you want to make a difference in the denom...then don't leave. If you don't care...leave. I would think it would only be frustrating to stay in if you really don't care all that much about it.
- Be sure to have an organization/association/etc to hook up with. People who are very relational. If you don't have that...I could see it being lonely.
Good luck. |
It would be nice to be able to bring change...but can you honestly say that it's possible? Look at our leadership. They don't understand a new movement. They are ignorant at how to relate to me let alone a changing culture. Like I said, its not a move of anger, but rather disappointment. When you have no hope, you have nothing. There is no hope in the COG. |
No, I don't know that you can bring change. This board is proof of that to some degree. We are all here saying that we wish it would change...but it doesn't. So if you feel that way...get out. If nothing else you'll save 15% every month.
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Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/24/07 9:38 pm
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| There is hope |
Steve Morrison |
I just take issue with this statement. You are basing it on your own experience with the COG and some on this board. To state unequivocally, "there is no hope for this organization" is wrong and you should reconsider what you are saying.
It's very difficult to give you advice based on your posts. Simply based on what you said, I'd say go. However I think that there is more to the story or more that you haven't been exposed to outside of your state. If you look at some of the larger COG's in several states you will see that there is a movement to accept more than "the good ol' way". If you talk to younger guys in states close to you, you will find that some have a different way of thinking.
Here in WNC there have been non-traditional church plants that have been successful, ok, one that I can think of off the top of my head. Any way, my point is, if you only look at your experience you are guilty of what you are frustrated with in the first place. (you are frustrated with the 'our way is the right (only) way' mentality, but yet you seem to be stating your way is the right(only) way. I'm probably reading more into and welcome any correction.) Perhaps you should widen your scope of viewing and see that God IS doing great things in the COG and there IS hope in the COG. That hope is not wrapped up in a style or method, but rather trusting and serving our wonderful Savior and knowing He is leading our local churches and He will bring revival to our denomination.
Please, I mean no malice, but be careful when you pronounce such a woeful claim on this denom. I for one don't receive that or believe it. I pray that God will bless you and your congregation no matter what you choose to do.
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"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." - A. Sachs
If ignorance is bliss, then some of you folks are the happiest people around. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1300
3/24/07 9:42 pm
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| Re: Serious COG question....serious replies only! |
KariJay |
| Unidentified wrote: | I am about to throw out a question to you all. I ask only that serious replies be made. Please, no cynical answers or bashing.
Our church is making a very serious consideration to remove ourselves from the COG. This is not a move of disgust or anger. We are "one of a kind" in style in our entire state. You may label us emergent or seeker driven....whatever. The fact is, we have no network of churches to associate with, unless we are like the other churches. The state has no resources whatsoever, and not just financially speaking. Lastly, we are offered no leadership or pastoral training on a continual basis.
We look at other groups or movements and find these things on a continual basis. So, my question is this: Why should our church continue to remain a part of this organization? Why should we continue to pay our 15% tax to the state and international levels, who coincidentally, is supposed to be serving the local church?
I state this question in a serious tone and not in anger. Please reply! |
Being in any denomination means we lean on each other. It sounds as if your church is much more progressive than the other churches there. Have you ever thought of maybe making it your ministry to train those churches around you to excel in growth and discipleship? Sometimes people want, want, want...but sometimes being in a denomination means we give, give, give. I think if you tried being a blessing to your state and the churches in it with the resources and talents you have, you might find a greater network because you reached out. Just a suggestion.
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www.twitter.com/karijay
www.karilife.com
Living Life...Learning Life...Loving Life... |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4825
3/24/07 11:12 pm
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| Stay or Go |
David Douglas |
| Many years ago I was confronted with the question of whether I should stay in the Church of God or go another way. I was seriously contemplating making the change when one of the older ministers in my state (Kentucky), who I thought was absolutely against the way I was doing things, asked me to stay in the COG. He told me that what I was doing was needed and that I could positively affect my state. I took his words to heart and stayed in the COG. Since that time I have seen the changes that have taken place moving my state more toward me. One of the things I remember hearing John Maxwell say is that some are early adopters, some a little later and some never. You seem to be an early adopter so don't feel that you will always be the only one. Stay and make a difference in what is going on in your state or region, but please don't allow the enemy to disconnect you with people who may not be early adopters but are waiting to see someone make the difference so that they can change their situation. God bless you in your following Him with your whole heart. |
Member
Posts: 44
3/25/07 8:00 am
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| Just go |
Nature Boy Florida |
If the Holy Spirit has said go, what are you waiting for?
If He has not, why ask us?
You sound as if you are being honest about it. Tell the overseer straight up what you are doing. Then do exactly what you said.
At least you aren't pretending to go start a work somewhere else and then stay in the same town and take the current COG supporters to start a church in the same area while diminishing the COG in town.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
3/25/07 12:53 pm
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| different style ??? |
dakotasdad_27 |
what is it exactly that makes your church so unique from the other churches in your state??
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"Some wish to live within the sound of Church or Chapel bell; I want to run a Rescue Shop within a yard of hell." |
Member
Posts: 25
3/25/07 3:42 pm
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| Re: Serious COG question....serious replies only! |
Leigh Teabing |
| Unidentified wrote: | So, my question is this: Why should our church continue to remain a part of this organization? Why should we continue to pay our 15% tax to the state and international levels, who coincidentally, is supposed to be serving the local church?
I state this question in a serious tone and not in anger. Please reply! |
I don't know of any church in the US that pays a tax of 15%. What we do is draw an arbitrary distinction between 'tithes' and other income & then pay 15% on a portion of our income. To pretend we pay a 15% tax is wrong.
Church of God congregations in some other parts of the world do pay 15% on all their income, but not in the US.
Why continue to pay it? I can't answer for you, but in our church we continue to pay it for two reasons.
1. God called this church into being to be a part of the Church of God. He has not called us to leave it. Therefore we fulfill the obligations necessary.
2. A portion of that 'tax' (the 2.5% that goes to World Missions) supports Bible Schools in Eastern Europe, native workers who secretly labor in the Islamic nations of the world, church planting in Africa, persecuted teenage evangelists in Communist China etc. I am proud that we have a Department that carries on such work, and I delight that some of our money goes to it. I wish it were more. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 205
3/26/07 2:10 am
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