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 Church Hoppers review visits Cinci Churches (L) |
Travis Johnson |
If you want to get a decent understanding of how unchurched people view church, you need to read some of these reviews. Unfortunately, the review of the COG is kind of brutal.
Church Hop Blog - Church Visit Reviews in Cincinnati
Last edited by Travis Johnson on 11/20/06 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
11/17/06 4:00 pm
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| WOW! Ya gotta read the reviews. A MUST READ! |
doyle |
Any pastor interested in what "unbelievers" think have to take time to read the reviews from these people's site.
They are not churched people and don't seem to have any agenda to discredit churches. So, don't dispair that they gave a low score to THE Church of God. They had some strong feelings about other groups too.
One of them admits they had never heard of someone being Pentecostal before. And even though the service they attended at Mt. Carmel COG, was something they'd never seen before (a girl receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit), the most damaging thing was that nobody spoke to them (the visitors) but they did say they left before the service was over.
If that girl did receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, even if that made the visitors nervous it was something good that happened in the service. We may want to remember that the COG grew the fastest when it was the most criticized in the past for causing people to have emotional fits.
We Pentecostals have been accused of scaring people before so this charge is not new. What is so facinating is the perspective these people visiting churches have of us and other churches.
This is a must read.
Doyle
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Acts-celerate Owner
Posts: 6957
11/17/06 4:26 pm
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The PH Bullet |
wow...this is truly priceless.
It confirms a lot of what I have been thinking over the past few years about how irrelevant we've become. When I pastored a church last year...it was very much like that. That is an extremely *typical* smaller pentecostal church. I literally came to the point were I was relieved when we would have NO visitors...because it was embarrassing to me when they did come. We had tambourines for anyone who wanted them, cheesy banners...the works. I literally talked my own family out of coming one day by making excuses. I didn't want to be judged by that mess.
A few years ago I guest preached at a good sized CoG for a friend. I had some old high school friends who lived in the area who are seekers, and they think it's a hoot that I'm a preacher now. They said they were going to come and I was hoping they would. But as I got there and sat down, I began to look around...and I literally prayed "Lord, it would be better for them not to come." It was such a cheesy, institutional feel-designed for those of us who have been in "it" all our lives...and while people aren't mean, there is just no connecting point.
man this strikes a chord. Thanks for posting it Travis. I think about this stuff continuously. I'm glad to go to a church which has a rep of being one of the most loving, accepting and relational/connecting churches in our area.
and if a certain WH is listening to me go on-sorry brother but you know it's true.
Bullet
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The PH Bullet
2817 posts on Acts Original |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 914
11/17/06 4:48 pm
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Da Sheik |
Should we expect any less from self-proclaimed agnostics?
Here is my evaluation of them:
Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1865
11/17/06 4:53 pm
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The PH Bullet |
| Da Sheik wrote: | Should we expect any less from self-proclaimed agnostics?
Here is my evaluation of them:
Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth
good |
Sheik, I was thinking the same things. Some of the things they criticized are non-negotiables...and ultimately the Gospel will offend because people don't like to be told they are in dire need of a Savior. Tough for them. I'll present it in love with a tear in my eye but I will die on a hill with a bloody sword in my hand for the Word of God.
But past all that...the Christian Country Club, the Bless Me Club, the Our Four No More Stuck in the Sixties junk-you can keep that. It's been dead and kept alive artificially for thirty years now. The gawdy, cheesy stuff
(I edited and toned this down a bit. I don't want to offend anyone...)
Bullet
Bullet
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The PH Bullet
2817 posts on Acts Original
Last edited by The PH Bullet on 11/17/06 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 914
11/17/06 4:59 pm
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philunderwood |
travis
this is too good to be true. every pastor on here needs to subscribe to this blog. thank you, thank you, thank you.
on another note, i have read some really stupifying things on this board and even typed a few myself, but the following one takes the cake.
| Quote: |
Should we expect any less from self-proclaimed agnostics? |
doyle, can you give this sheik a golden head-dress that would designate him as the chief of all clueless leaders who read and post on this board?
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Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3954
11/17/06 5:10 pm
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| Persepctive |
RodDsm |
Wow!!! This is great perspective. Makes you think what they would say about your church if they walked in.
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Friendly Face
Posts: 158
11/17/06 5:11 pm
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TheoloJohn |
The question that comes to my mind is, "Was God displeased with these people's worship?"
I absolutely don't get the mindset that wants to please the world in order to win them.
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Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2160
11/17/06 5:36 pm
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Travis Johnson |
Just an FYI. Doyle changed my header. I didn't post it with the intention of pointing out Mt. Carmel COG. I didn't name the church. I also figured that if you wanted to find out about them, you were going to have to dig deep to the beginnings of the blog. Still, there are some good lessons to learn from them as well as every other church listed.
I will say that after you have been in any church and adopt it as your home, you see things through a different set of eyes. Walking into a strange church for the first time is petrifying for an unbeliever. If you want to see a really tough review through that lense, look at Mt. Carmel Missionary Baptist Church. Not a sould talked to them. Service hadn't started until 15 minutes after the published start time. That is when they left.
If we are truly to be in the business of being Christ to the world, the foolishness of lame, meaningless religious form has to end. Christ is better than some of the dead religion we pass off in the name of church. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
11/17/06 6:15 pm
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Wellda |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | Just an FYI. Doyle changed my header. I didn't post it with the intention of pointing out Mt. Carmel COG. I didn't name the church. I also figured that if you wanted to find out about them, you were going to have to dig deep to the beginnings of the blog. Still, there are some good lessons to learn from them as well as every other church listed.
I will say that after you have been in any church and adopt it as your home, you see things through a different set of eyes. Walking into a strange church for the first time is petrifying for an unbeliever. If you want to see a really tough review through that lense, look at Mt. Carmel Missionary Baptist Church. Not a sould talked to them. Service hadn't started until 15 minutes after the published start time. That is when they left.
If we are truly to be in the business of being Christ to the world, the foolishness of lame, meaningless religious form has to end. Christ is better than some of the dead religion we pass off in the name of church. |
Oh?
What part of these "critiqued" services were dead, Travis?
The preacher's sermons they found fault with?
The girl being baptized in the Holy Ghost?
What part was dead?
It sounds like the "they didn't greet me properly" part was dead religion to you - and to them.
It sounds like "they didn't start on time" was dead religion too.
Good grief.
The entire critique was based on their "comfort" levels. Please.
Just how "uncomfortable" do you think unbelievers were who stood in the midst of the miracles of Jesus? Paul? Peter? and the preaching of same.
I'm sorry. It sounds to me like the criteria for "church" has entirely shifted to meet the world's expectations and not God's.
I'll stay with God. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1539
11/17/06 6:38 pm
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Travis Johnson |
I'm on the way out the door...got a hot date. So this has to be short.
I am talking exclusively about churches who last consider the ones who Christ considered first when He came for us and for whom He sent us to-the lost. It has nothing to do with removing tongues. It has everything to do with being so self-centered that a guest is greeted coldly, and is not communicated to in a way that makes basic sense. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
11/17/06 6:46 pm
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Wellda |
| Travis Johnson wrote: |
I am talking exclusively about churches who last consider the ones who Christ considered first when He came for us and for whom He sent us to-the lost. |
You cannot assume that! You cannot!
It is a presumption on your part to judge churches based on these few and trite points.
To assume they are unconcerned about souls is quite the prideful statement! |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1539
11/17/06 6:52 pm
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| You know |
sheepdogandy |
I have tried to pursue a "let's see" attitude toward the emergents.
You guys have really shown your true colors on this one.
We have just completed three nights of wonderful Pentecostal services.
Praise, Preaching, Praying.
If I must attain to a superficial standard of sophistication to appease.
I will gladly remain what I am.
Classical Pentecost is succeeding in my congregation.
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Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
11/17/06 8:30 pm
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| Re: You know |
The PH Bullet |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | I have tried to pursue a "let's see" attitude toward the emergents.
You guys have really shown your true colors on this one.
We have just completed three nights of wonderful Pentecostal services.
Praise, Preaching, Praying.
If I must attain to a superficial standard of sophistication to appease.
I will gladly remain what I am.
Classical Pentecost is succeeding in my congregation. |
Sheepdog I don't think anyone is trying to change you. And I don't really consider Travis emergent-I know I don't consider myself that way.
If I had what you have-a dynamic classical pentecostal church which was on the move and where people were getting saved and growing in the Lord, and constant additions to the church-I'd be happy as a clam and I'd sing every song in the Redback and invite everyone to the altar to get slain...and I'm serious as I could be.
But most that I know about are not. I know exactly what these bloggers are talking about, I've been in lots of them and pastored one. You can have 'em.
I think you're taking this way to personally Andy. Please don't.
Bullet
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The PH Bullet
2817 posts on Acts Original
Last edited by The PH Bullet on 11/17/06 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-celerater
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11/17/06 9:36 pm
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| It seems the agnostics should learn to spell before |
RichardBane |
they criticize a church for their services.
Also we all know that the Church of God is more diverse now than any time in our history so you cannot judge the entire COG by one church or one service.
Is it possible for any church to become so seeker sensitive that all people will feel welcome or comfortable?
Of course we should all want our church to present the gospel in a manner that some will be saved. But we must also be who we are in Christ without apology or consideration of unbelievers comfort. |
Friendly Face
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11/17/06 9:37 pm
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| Re: It seems the agnostics should learn to spell before |
The PH Bullet |
| RichardBane wrote: | they criticize a church for their services.
Also we all know that the Church of God is more diverse now than any time in our history so you cannot judge the entire COG by one church or one service.
Is it possible for any church to become so seeker sensitive that all people will feel welcome or comfortable?
Of course we should all want our church to present the gospel in a manner that some will be saved. But we must also be who we are in Christ without apology or consideration of unbelievers comfort. |
Right. But don't be surprised when a couple of agnostics show up and blow you off. If your forty years out of date anachronistic styling is what means something to you, then by all means keep doing what you're doing.
Sorry guys but I've had enough. I'm not going back to church on the corner Bless Me Club.
Bullet
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The PH Bullet
2817 posts on Acts Original |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 914
11/17/06 9:40 pm
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| PH Bullet Response |
RichardBane |
| Code: | | Right. But don't be surprised when a couple of agnostics show up and blow you off. If your forty years out of date anachronistic styling is what means something to you, then by all means keep doing what you're doing. |
PH you have jumped to a conclusion about me and my style of worship without knowing me or my church. I really don't know how to respond to you without sounding either proud or arrogant. So I will just say that style has nothing to do with who we are in Christ......or does it?
The point I was making is how far do you go to make sinners comfortable? Welcome ....yes, loved ....yes, friendly......yes, comfortable......to a point!
Sinners are very comfortable around sinners but unless sin is confronted conviction in my experience does not come to a sinful persons heart.
The method of confrontation by preaching is not an exact science or at least in my case it isn't. Sometimes I do better than others but at all times I do preach. Maybe the writer was thinking of me when he wrote by the foolishness of preaching.
Anyway the Lord bless you and I pray you find innovative ways to present the gospel and win this generation to the Lord. I am trying my best! |
Friendly Face
Posts: 489
11/17/06 10:07 pm
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| Re: PH Bullet Response |
The PH Bullet |
| RichardBane wrote: | | Code: | | Right. But don't be surprised when a couple of agnostics show up and blow you off. If your forty years out of date anachronistic styling is what means something to you, then by all means keep doing what you're doing. |
PH you have jumped to a conclusion about me and my style of worship without knowing me or my church. I really don't know how to respond to you without sounding either proud or arrogant. So I will just say that style has nothing to do with who we are in Christ......or does it?
The point I was making is how far do you go to make sinners comfortable? Welcome ....yes, loved ....yes, friendly......yes, comfortable......to a point!
Sinners are very comfortable around sinners but unless sin is confronted conviction in my experience does not come to a sinful persons heart.
The method of confrontation by preaching is not an exact science or at least in my case it isn't. Sometimes I do better than others but at all times I do preach. Maybe the writer was thinking of me when he wrote by the foolishness of preaching.
Anyway the Lord bless you and I pray you find innovative ways to present the gospel and win this generation to the Lord. I am trying my best! |
I apologize I didn't mean to make assumptions. I was thinking more generic "you" but I see how it sounded. Forgive me. I hear what you're saying. I'm pretty passionate about this subject as you can see, but its not worth hurting someone over.
Bullet
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The PH Bullet
2817 posts on Acts Original |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 914
11/17/06 10:15 pm
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| You know bullet |
sheepdogandy |
people are rarely "slain" at our church.
Go figure.
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Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
11/17/06 10:56 pm
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| don't shoot the messenger! |
muricewatsonsfriend |
thanks, travis, for helping know where to get info. about what people think. Hey, didn't Jesus do surveys? "who do men say that I am?"
Darius |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 733
11/17/06 11:17 pm
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