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Is it acceptable to CLEP courses in college?

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **9/11/18 5:38 pm**

Look, what I'm getting ready to tell you may or may not be true.... But let's suppose that when I was working on my degree, I realized that there were about a good number of credit-hours that I could CLEP (i.e., just take the test and, if I passed, pay the full price for the course and get credit).

So, in roughly half the time that it took others, a B.A. could be obtained.

Is that wrong?

And if not, would it be wrong if a person CLEPed ALL their college courses to get a degree (assuming a college would allow that)?

What if I could CLEP my way to a Master's Degree and even almost to a Ph.D?

If the university allows it, is it acceptable? And if they only permit CLEP credits for a portion of the needed credit-hours, do I have a right to question why they will accept only so many?

In fact, let's put it in a way that might raise OTCP from the dead (although I think most of us know that he was twice dead, plucked up by the roots!!!):

If a person had the ability to take and pass all of the exams that are needed to pass the courses to a Ph.D, then perhaps even wrote a disseration for the rest of it (or perhaps had life experience that demonstrated all the qualities that a disseration would have provided--research, adding to the body of knowledge, etc.), would it be wrong to accept a Ph.D?

If not, then why would it be wrong for a university, recognizing some the requisite knowledge in someone, as well as the fact that that person had contributed significantly to the research and knowledge in a field, to just award them with a Ph.D?

I mean, if you could, at least in theory, CLEP your way to a B.A., the CLEP process demonstrating one's abilities, why not to a Masters? Or a Ph.D?

It's not like a Ph.D is utterly unlike any undergraduate degree. It's very similar--take courses, read, research, write a paper (just on a larger scale).

So, if it would not be wrong to CLEP to a Ph.D--especially if an accredited university accepted such--then are we admitting that the university is admitting that if you know this much, then you are deemed worthy of the credit-hours/degree?

And if so, then if a university, taking someone's work into account, decided to aware them a Ph.D because of that, would it NOT be Ph.D?

And is it not possible that, to a significant degree, that is kind of what an honorary degree is about? Yes, we all know that it's not a "real" Ph.D., even if the recipient knows more than any "real" Ph.D., but most honorary degrees are not awarded at random. They go to people who truly have done great things in a field.

If the pianist Paderewski was given an honorary degree in music, he would have richly deserved it, having almost certainly contributed more to the field than an Ph.D. If they gave him a Ph.D for it (honorary or not), it would have been richly deserved.

Just some musings.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **9/11/18 6:25 pm**

raise your hand if you knew where this was going from the first paragraph

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **9/11/18 7:33 pm**

I donâ€™t think you will find any legitimately accredited university that would allow someone to CLEP an entire bachelorâ€™s, masterâ€™s or doctorâ€™s degree. Most have a minimum of credits you must take at their school in order for them to grant you a degree, even for students transferring in with credits from another school.

QW...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **9/11/18 8:46 pm**

Re: QW...

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **9/12/18 4:53 am**

Re: Is it acceptable to CLEP courses in college?

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **9/12/18 6:50 am**

Usually only select courses may have a CLEP option

Acts Mod Posts: 25305 **9/12/18 7:46 am**

They are generally core courses (Composition, Humanities, Math). This is a good option for students who had gifted aptitudes or skills in these areas but had no chance to take college level courses during high school. That way they can focus quicker on major subjects.
These tests are extremely difficult and should not be discounted. There are educators who would have great difficulty passing a CLEP test in many areas due to the fact that there is no daily reinforcement to the materials. These tests result in accredited credits being given in fully accredited institutions.
They are not the same as the spurious credit being given for "life experience" in order to gain a gimmick easy way out degree to hang on your wall and give yourself positive strokes with the title "Doctor."

I think I just heard OTCP shouting from the amen corner. Laughing

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Dave Dorsey...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **9/12/18 8:28 am**

About the precedent thing....

The precedent is this: A university is awarding someone credits based on evidence (passing the test) that they already have the requisite knowledge in those areas.

If we extend that (and, in truth, I'm not sure there is a really good reason that a university couldn't, in fact, make it so that if a person could indeed pass all of the exams for a degree, a degree was conferred), we can then make the justified leap to a university, aware of someone's significant knowledge and advancement of a particular field, might deem that that person has all the requisite knowledge for a degree and confer the degree on them.

Now, you and I know that not all honorary degrees are given just to those who truly tower over a field. They are sometimes given for political reasons, or what have you. But some ARE given to people who, even without the formal degree, stand fully equal, perhaps superior, to anyone in the field.

For instance, Fermat, the mathematician, was only informally a mathematician. He did not have a doctorate in math, etc., and yet his "last theorem" has likely sparked more advancement in the field of math than any other theory.

If he had been awarded an honorary degree in math, he not only would have richly deserved it, but would be fully equal to it.

If a university can accept SOME courses being CLEPed (i.e., demonstration of ability allows one to gain credits toward a degree without actually taking the course), then the difference in this and actually awarding someone a degree due to their demonstrated expertise in a field is only a matter of extending the CLEP-thing further.

Now, if a university did not accept CLEP at all, that is logically consistent with an honorary degree meaning little more than appreciation. But if a university DOES accept CLEP courses (and to my knowledge, all do), then we can ask the following questions:

1) Why do you only permit CLEPing for X number of credits or only in certain courses?

2) If a person has the ability to CLEP even those courses that a university does not permit to be CLEPed, why does the university deem it acceptable to CLEP some courses where one knows the material, but not all other courses for which one has sufficient ability?

3) What if a person who has not CLEPed any courses is still recognized as an authority in a certain field (evidenced by articles, interviews, papers, etc.)? SOMEONE (or some committee) has decided that a CLEP test will be made up of certain questions, etc. Why could not the same people decide to recognize that a person clearly has the good, even if no CLEP test was given? I mean, these people have decided that if a person knows the material on a CLEP test, that person is good to go. So why not also have some sort of way to award a person a doctorate--perhaps by acclaim--that does not have the standard courses, etc.? I mean, a CLEP student did not take the standard courses, but instead demonstrated suitable knowledge for those courses. That is simply a matter of a lesser degree than a university declaring a person worthy of a doctorate due to the person ALREADY having demonstrated authority.

Re: Dave Dorsey...

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **9/12/18 8:34 am**

CLEP is a great way to go ...

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1994 **9/12/18 9:21 am**

CLEP is a great to go for those "core" credits required for undergrad degrees. I received several credits at Christopher Newport University (which is part of the Virginia university system) and it was a great experience. In my case it was pay your money, take the test(s) and if you pass you got the credits. No three months of classwork, plus driving to and from and still paying to get the same credits.

For the core credits I'm a think CLEP and community college are the way to go as far as cost and time are concerned. I know a young lady who is a lawyer who was able to CLEP her way through much of her undergrad work and was accepted into Law School without a undergrad degree (BA/BS).

I feel the say way about the GED. If I had known how easy it was I would have left high school behind long before I did (joined the Corps when I turned 18 back when you did not have to have be a High School grad).

Mat

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **9/12/18 9:31 am**

So I believe Aaron is arguing for all recipients of honorary degrees to take final exam courses for all 130 credits for a bachelors degree - and if they pass them all - confer the honorary degree...and feel free to use the initials B.S. after their name.

Aaron Scott B.S.

Sounds about right. Twisted Evil

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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **9/12/18 11:28 am**

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4804 **9/12/18 12:15 pm**

If you're going to do something like this, then look at your state schools.

I used to work for Shepherd University in WV. They have a legit program called a Regent's Bachelor's of Arts.

It'll take all your random undergrad classes, your life experience, and see how much credit you have. They'll fill in the blanks with classes that they work out with you, depending on your goals and needs.

You end up with a degree in everything and nothing at all... But it's a good way to get your Bachelor's done, and hopefully move on to a Master's degree, and to do it the right way.
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IDEA!

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **9/13/18 2:56 pm**

First, Brandon, thanks for that info on Shepherd University. I don't think I had heard of it before.

I wouldn't doubt that if a university knew that they would get paid, say, DOUBLE what they would receive for a student taking regular courses (i.e., non-CLEP, etc.), you would see a WHOLE LOT MORE courses open up to the CLEP process, etc.

Right now, the profits on auxiliary items (text books, parking tags, and the such) probably tip the balance toward the standard student model. But make it a profitable enterprise, and universities, especially private ones, I imagine, would make some changes.

The Premise May Be Moot

Acts-celerater Posts: 875 **9/15/18 7:53 am**

I earned a bachelor's degree and took lots of tests. I think CLEPing is perfectly fine at that level. However, I earned two Master's degrees and a D.Min and I can't recall ever taking a test, other than a few essay tests. All my grades were derived from writing endless numbers of papers based on thousands of pages of reading, and eventually a dissertation. Without attending graduate and doctoral level classes, I could not have written those papers to the expectations of the professors.

Re: Is it acceptable to CLEP courses in college?

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **9/15/18 8:17 pm**

What does 'CLEP" stand for?

For undergraduate degrees, most universities in the US want you to earn a certain number of credits there, usually the last two years worth. You can't just 'CLEP' (whatever that means) the credit hours. Many universities accept AP courses from highschoolers for some kind of credits or exemptions. I think I exempted out of two classes that way.

I went to three flagship state universities. For my PhD, I just theoretically needed to take five classes, a qualifying exam, comprehensive exam, propose, write, and defend a dissertation and defend to graduate and get all the forms signed. There was just one class per semester for two years I had to take. The other class would be at least one Ph.D. independent study with the dissertation chair. I had to be taking that class when I defended.

That sounds easy. While the technical requirements were really few, to actually graduate, I had to take more classes. I had to have three professors give me questions for the qualifier and three for the comp. Professors could say, 'no.' And if you asked a professor for a question and you hadn't even taken his or her seminar, that was asking for trouble, so you had to take these professor's seminar's, too. And it was expected of you to attend all the academic presentations and take courses, which you needed to build relationships with those who could be on your committee. Still, you could take a professor's class and he or she could be too busy to be on your committee. I had a class with one Japanese professor who turned me down. I think he was offended that I went with another faculty member to be my chair.

Universities with high standards don't give out PhDs easily without putting you through a rigorous process. If there was some kind of 'Good Will Hunting' guy who knew all the stuff, maybe he could take short-cuts.

Usually it takes more than four years to get through a PhD.
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Re: CLEP is a great way to go ...

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **9/15/18 8:21 pm**

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **9/15/18 9:53 pm**

I have an 'earned' HS and college level GED . Not sure the college level GED still exists. but to the OP. I have no problem believing if a college or university tests on the level of the grad, it should be accepted.

I know, I know for us non grads in anything to make that judgement is silly we just don't know the whole story. And of course one thinking that might just be right.

But I have had folks working for me with 4 yr degrees that could not write a sensible pass down log.

But I DO NOT consider the CLEP'ing even close to the degree mills. Embarassed

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CLEP =

Acts-celerater Posts: 875 **9/16/18 8:18 am**

College Level Examination Program

Re: CLEP =

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **9/16/18 9:50 pm**