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Why Is "Wives Submitting," a Taboo Topic?

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **12/13/11 6:45 pm**

On a recent thread on ministers who feel called to ministry whose wives are not supportive, I seemed to get the sense that some posters were not too keen on discussing the idea of wives submitting to their husbands. A while back, I posted a couple of threads on the topic of submission and got a couple of PMs from people, the content of which surprised me.

Why is it that, even among conservative Pentecostal and other Evangelical Christians, if a man expresses a concern about wives submitting to husbands, the man might be suspected of being a domineering person or even worse. I saw a video on YouTube which contained a lot of arguments that seemed rather spurious and contrary to the context of scripture arguing that the Bible didn’t really tell women to submit to their husbands. The background had pictures of women who had been abused and lots of facts about abuse, as if Biblical teaching on wives submitting to husbands were at the root of abuse. Unfortunately, this attitude seems common among Evangelicals, even if not held to this extreme.

I read a little study guide that contained a section on marriage and quoted from Ephesians 5. I don’t remember the exact words in the commentary, but it was something along these lines,
“Yes the passage tells wives to submit to their husbands. We have all heard a lot of people preaching about wives submitting to their husbands. But husbands, you’d better listen to me buster, loving your wife like Christ loves the church is a lot bigger deal.” Then, it addressed the husband’s role.

I thought, that’s not true. I hardly ever heard any preachers talking about wives needing to submit to their husbands. The typical thing I hear or read is “We’ve all heard a lot about wives submitting to husbands. Well, husbands, loving your wives like Christ loved the church is a bigger responsibility” (conveniently skipping over that controversial submission part.)

Maybe the people who say this stuff grew up before the 1970’s when I was a kid. Maybe they are younger but when to Independent Baptist churches or conservative churches where women cannot speak at all and there is a lot of emphasis on patriarchy. But I haven’t heard emphasis on wives submitting in Pentecostal churches, Charismatic churches, or mildly seeker sensitive churches that I can recall beyond a passing reference.

The other thing I hear in reference to wives submitting is someone reads that and says something like, “but if he tells you to smoke crack and kill someone, don’t do that.” Maybe it’s not that extreme of an example, but the cases of when NOT to submit seem the be the next popular topic of discussion. Even if the speaker and audience have husbands who are mature Christians, the topic of what submission looks like and how to do it in marriage gets skipped over, at least for the time being, just to make sure none of the wives smoke crack and rob a bank because their husbands put them up to it.

Marriages in our society are falling apart. The feminist experiment with society and marriage isn’t working. In how many homes of people who go to church with us, if you asked both husband and wife if the wife submits to her husband and the husband functions as the head of the home, both husband and wife would say ‘yes’? What would their children say? How many husbands and wives and children would answer that the husband takes a primarily role in teaching the children the word of God and in heading up the household?

I don’t see a lot of teaching on this in the churches I’ve been to. Yours may well be different. I hear teaching on marriage that focuses on communication. There isn’t anything wrong with that, but isn’t it likely that the solutions to marriage problems lie in the few instructions that the apostles repeated a few times to married couples? There are three verses telling wives to submit to their husbands and one telling old women to teach young women to love their husbands and be subject to them. Yes, men do get a lot more space in scripture devoted to loving their wives.

So here are some questions for discussion.

Pastors and posters, if you are counseling, whether formally or informally, with a married couple, and the man points out that his wife does not submit to him, do you assume the man is a control freak? Do you try to fix what is wrong with the man?

Btw, if a man loves his wife, wouldn’t he want his wife to submit to him? My wife and I once had a conversation about this, and she said, “I submit to you, not because of you. I do it for the Lord.” I agree with her sentiments completely. Since I love my wife I want her to be right with God. I want her to be submitted to Christ, and part of that is her being submissive to me. Submission is something she does. Subjugating would be something a husband does. I am not to subjugate my wife, trying to force her to submit. She submits willfully to me, as unto the Lord. She does it because she honors the Lord.

Pastors and posters, does your church make an effort to teach women to submit to their husbands? What do you do to encourage it? Are there older women in the church who disciple the younger women in loving their husbands and submitting to them? How do you teach men to exercise responsible headship in the home? Do you have any people in your church who disciple the younger men in this area? Is there a concerted effort in this area?

For the married men, is your wife submissive to you? Don’t feel compelled to answer if the answer is ‘no.’ (You might get it later if your wife reads the forum.)

For the married women, do you submit to your own husbands? Do you feel uncomfortable discussing the issue of submitting to your husband with your husband? If so, why? Do you teach younger women about this, or do you have an older woman who teaches you?
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Link

Sexist or not (in others opinions) I'd rather be biblical

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5657 **12/13/11 7:02 pm**

Link, at the risk of being scorned profusely, I think this is the best and most thought provoking post I have ever read of yours to date. It centers in nicely, and fairly, on the issue of biblical submission between a wife and her husband. And your passing mention of the effects of deviating therefrom on society at large are worth exploring too. God designed marriage the way He did for a reason, and He called it good. We are not smarter than He.

I hope others will sincerely and honestly engage with you on this topic, and not let it devolve into a bunch of theological smack and posturing. The family, the marriage, is paramount for the health of humanity and society. God knows what will work best for all concerned, and we would reap great blessings by sincerely pursuing biblical principles for our marriages and homes.
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Poimen
Bro. Christopher

Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay."

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **12/13/11 7:05 pm**

Link

Last edited by Cojak on 12/13/11 7:20 pm; edited 4 times in total

I read my comment over and it sounded sorta stupid, so I deleted it.. very unusual for me Shocked

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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **12/13/11 7:14 pm**

Thanks for the encouragement Poimen.

And thanks for the feedback, Bonnie. I suspected a lot of people would have far different experience than mine. I'd imagine whether someone goes to a church in a rural versus urban area or the south versus the north or west could make a difference, too.

Are there women in the church who encourage younger women to love their husbands, be diligent about the home and the submit to their husbands?
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Link

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **12/13/11 7:28 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **12/13/11 7:35 pm**

I'm reminded of something I remember hearing many years ago on a cassette tape by Cloud and Townsend on "Boundaries in Marriage." Near the end of the cassette, they addressed the issue of wives submitting. They said it had been their experience that the only time they were asked that was when individuals were wanting to control their partner.
FWIW.

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **12/13/11 8:35 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **12/13/11 9:03 pm**

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **12/13/11 9:16 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **12/13/11 9:28 pm**

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5431 **12/13/11 9:29 pm**

I think the source of women not submitting to their husbands has been a profuse history and experience with immature and carnal men. Shocked

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Randy Johnson, Pastor
Ickesburg Church of God
85 Tuscarora Path
Ickesburg, Pennsylvania

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **12/13/11 9:43 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **12/13/11 9:58 pm**

"You take JW there. He don't have to fool around. He's got the perfect wife. Lois is a lady, first and foremost. Quiet and reserved, always stylishly dressed. He never has to ask for his dinner or hunt for clean socks. You gotta get 'em while they're young and take 'em right from their mama, and you raise 'em up right by you to keep 'em true. You raise 'em just like you would a bird dog."

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **12/13/11 10:06 pm**

...or a slave. If ya have ta slap 'em around a bit to show 'em who's boss, well, they just needs to come ta a understandin' that they have ta submit.

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **12/13/11 10:08 pm**

Since this got a sticky, I'll go ahead and share something.

I knew a missionary overseas who really did a lot of work founding Bible schools and things like that. He was probably a Type A personality. He was really nice guy. You could always reach him on his cell phone, and hundreds of people felt like he was a father to them.

One time though, he showed one of his flaws. He was with his wife in a van and probably a few other people including myself, the driver, and maybe someone else. He and his wife were talking and she had forgotten to put some money in a bank account to cover the bills, maybe back in the US. He got really upset and raised his voice at her and looked angry as he had a bit of a fit.

She just agreed with him that she was wrong, that what she did was stupid. She was very calm throughout the whole thing. Within a few seconds, he still looked angry, but there was nothing for him to react to. She didn't argue back. She didn't say, "Don't talk to me like that." or "Don't talk to me like that in front of these people." My view of him might have gone down a notch or two after that.

But I have great respect for that man's wife (widow now), for the way she handled that. She interacted with her husband with submissiveness and respect, and just didn't give any fuel at all the fire of his anger. She may have told him it was inappropriate later, when we weren't around. I don't know. But it took a kind of strength and self-control to do that. Submission takes strength. I respect a woman who can do that.

I also wonder how many arguments in marriages can be prevented or quelled by a wife having an attitude of submission and reverence toward her husband. If she wants to correct him and does it with respect/reverence, how many arguments would that solve. I don't see how yelling, for example, is consistent with either submission or respect. Of course, if men loved their wives like Christ loved the church, too, that would prevent a lot of arguing. I just don't imagine Christ yelling at His church.
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Link

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **12/13/11 10:16 pm**

Link, what you saw in her reaction was an indication that she had been forced to deal with that kind of outburst before. JMO.

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **12/13/11 10:20 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **12/13/11 10:23 pm**

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **12/13/11 10:29 pm**