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What to do to improve MIP?

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4682 **9/8/12 4:17 pm**

The book reading or CD/Internet listening is fine for the material that is presented but some of it is redundant as it copies some things that were covered in college. I understand the reason for it's implementation in MIP as we use the current model.

We have a giant hole in our overall system & it comes in the form or need of training people on how to be church planters and/or effective church leaders as pastors. We have way too many churches today that are led by guys who have very little interest in becoming relevant to their community unless the community becomes relative to them first.

Re-training current leaders is probably not the only answer but it would never be shunned either. The answer comes when we make up a dedicated mind with a determined will to make it our goal to spread the message of Christ in "other" places outside of saturated areas.

Consider this if you might:
Take a look at a map of the U.S. & look at the areas where we are the weakest & call that the mission field. If you live in the saturated S/E part of the U.S. & your vision of spreading God's Word is to squeeze in another church between the multiple churches that already exist, then your vision is weak & limited ...in my opinion & in most cases.

However if you have the fortitude to consider planting a church in an area where you are not familiar with the landscape or the culture, then you my friend are not only a church planting candidate but you are a missionary as well. There is never going to come a day in our lifetime where the CoG is going to lose it's S/E identity or it's southern culture. But if we don't embrace the rest of the U.S. as fertile soil for soul harvest & challenge church planters to be willing to take a risk on this mission field, then we will continue our march as a dying movement who has lost it's will to reach 'all' the lost who we have been entrusted to reach.

Last night at a 'meet-n-greet' with the new AB (Charles Fischer) I asked him about church planting efforts & his vision for California in terms of birthing new churches. He said the #1 primary target is San Diego (one of the most beautiful cities in the U.S.) Over 2 million residents, huge college town, military bases, border town to Mexico & our closest fellowship is a group of less than 12 people who meet about 15 miles outside of town. We used to have 3 churches in S.D. with one of them a 250 member church but over the years it shrunk to nothing & the 3 were amalgamated to the one that is 15 miles away ...pretty sad if you ask me. Now with fresh vision & commitment we will make a concerted effort to plant our 1st new church in the very near future in this gorgeous setting. I pray that the Lord will send us the right leaders who will be willing to stay for the long run.

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Re: What to do to improve MIP?

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **9/8/12 4:27 pm**

Re: What to do to improve MIP?

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4682 **9/8/12 4:48 pm**

Re: What would you do to improve MIP

Acts-celerater Posts: 975 **9/8/12 5:36 pm**

Re: MIP training by links, not books

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1085 **9/8/12 5:54 pm**

Re: What to do to improve MIP?

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **9/8/12 5:57 pm**

Acts-celerater Posts: 788 **9/8/12 6:49 pm**

I WOULD like an answer to the question about cams being voted down at the assembly then the Gen. office making it mandatory when the GA said no. How can this happen making sometime mandatory that was never approved by the GA. Sad

Re: What would you do to improve MIP

Friendly Face Posts: 202 **9/8/12 7:55 pm**

Saturation?

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **9/8/12 7:58 pm**

While I believe that the Church of God is not "just another" church, I also can see that while we may only have a handful of OUR churches in an area, that church can be "saturated" with other churches, making it very hard for a new plant to take hold.

At the same time, some areas are saturated with Churches of God. Cleveland, hardly a metropolis, has a huge number of churches when compared to much larger areas.

Ideally, we could go into a community with 65 Assemblies of God, set up shop, and STILL draw a sustaining crowd. But while that's ideal, it's not all that likely.

Churches should not only be planted where there are fewer competing churches, independent or of any like denomination, but should be planted where there are few churches PERIOD. It seems as short-sighted to start yet another Church of God in Cleveland as it does to start a Church of God in an area with numerous Pentecostal churches.

Our priority should be in those areas that don't have a strong Pentecostal presence at all, let along a strong Church of God presence.

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4804 **9/8/12 11:23 pm**

I had a good experience with MIP.

I graduated high school in 1998, wanting to go into ministry, but not ready for college yet. My pastor recommended MIP, so I did it.

The state of VA at that time did a good job with my placement. I grew up in a large church, so they placed me in a smaller church in the next county over. I had a great supervising pastor who was on the state evangelism board, and even though he was surprised to get me, especially as young as I was, I believe he really cared about me. When I was complete with my internship, the church didn't really want me to leave there, but I went back to my home church for a while before I went to Lee.

Some of the posts on here allude to wanting MIP to be less intense. I'm not sure how it is now, but from what I did, I would ask that it be more intense.

The idea is that you might graduate from MIP and "be ready" to get a church. I wouldn't have been ready after my internship. At the time, you were only required to preach 1 sermon during the 9 month internship... Change it to 1 per month!! And as for reading - I would double it. I know pastors who read 1 book per week... And diversify it a little more. I had a ton of COG authors, plus I had to read a woman's devotional... That was kind of irrelevant for a single 18 year old.

My pastor did a good job at meeting with me and keeping me involved in a lot of areas of the church. I had a hand in kids, youth, and outreach. For a church of about 100 people at that time, we were pretty active. I also played in the worship band.

Remember - you only have 9 months.. The expectation should be that it's intense. You're taking college credits while doing practical ministry, and still living life.... Let's be real - most of you full and even part time pastors are putting in a ton of hours at the church, on top of your other commitments. Set the bar very high while your interns are training, and you'll get better results when they're done.

I would also suggest more one on one mentoring. One of the most valuable things I gained was the alone time I had with my pastor, but we were only required to have one meeting a month, and it was more of a checklist type of thing. When we were doing ministry together, planning something together, or simply riding in the car together --- those were more valuable to me than anything, and they just didn't happen enough.

Lastly, because I did MIP before I went to Lee, I was exempted from a lot of stuff at Lee.. I didn't have to do the Pastoral Ministry practicum. I got out of a couple of classes, and since I had my Exhorter's, I was even exempted from going to Chapel... I would suggest getting rid of the practicum and chapel exemptions. A second practicum at the end of my Lee studies would have made for more realistic expectations after I graduated and thought I'd be the next Rick Warren... And the only thing missing chapel did for me was allow me to get more sleep, or to work more at my job.

Hope this helps!
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[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **9/8/12 11:35 pm**

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **9/9/12 12:23 am**

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3954 **9/9/12 2:00 am**

If you have a candidate carrying out a ministry...

Acts Mod Posts: 25305 **9/9/12 8:21 pm**

in a local church, then do not pull him out of that church to send them to another church. It's one thing to send them to observe a ministry, etc. but for that candidate to be expected to go and serve there would weaken the local church.
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Re: First thing...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5161 **9/10/12 10:57 am**

My recommendations...

Friendly Face Posts: 388 **9/10/12 9:17 pm**

I am 28 years old, have been a senior pastor for almost 5 years and have not gone through the MIP program. I haven't done so for a few reasons:

1. The time commitment for my family
The last time I checked my wife is required to go through MIP with me. She is a full time teacher and at this time in our lives with 2 kids under 5, our family is not ready to make the commitment to 6 weekend at the campground during a 6th month period. Obviously you make time for what you want, and if Andy stanley was inviting me to drive to Atlanta 6 weekends I would do it in a second, but currently for what MIP is, this schedule doesn't work for us.

2. The practicality of the material to my local church mission and environment
I want to be careful to not sound arrogant in how I say this, because I believe there are many different ways to "do" church, but currently MIP is not structured to help a young pastor lead a church in a metropolitan city through contemporary or modern methods. In my opinion, looking in from the outside, the instructors are great men with tenure in ministry who have a wealth of wisdom to shepherding or pastoral care, but minister in completely different environments than what I am trying to build.

3. The Cost
Not because it's too expensive or my church wouldn't cover the cost, but because the cost compared to the quality of the materials isn't good enough in my opinion.

All that being said I love what I'm hearing from Marty and the NGA MIP changes. These are my suggestions for improving MIP (or making it more appealing)
1. Offer digital solutions. Much like online classes for college. We can meet up at the beginning and the end but we should be able to learn the material on our own.
2. Offer the opportunity to test out. Either based on taking an actual test or lead pastor experience. If you can pass the test before you start I think you should be able to bypass the sessions.
3. Offer much more practical experience in thriving local churches. Not just churches that have large attendance because that attendance may have been gained 15 years ago, but find the churches that are growing now, seeing salvations and baptisms, and sit them in the front of the room for Q&A.
4. Offer different streams for those lay ministers who are wanting to be credentialed, and those who are already pastoring who still need to go through the program.
5. Offer MIP credit for going to other training events and conferences. If you are able to go to a round table event with Chris Hodges or Dino Rizzo or Marty Baker shouldn't that count for something?

Just my thoughts. At some point I will go through the MIP because it's the only way I will get to vote at the Assembly, but lucky for me the GA bought me 2 more years until I can be ordained, so I can mature fully.

Jason

great question...

Friendly Face Posts: 388 **9/10/12 9:19 pm**

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4804 **9/10/12 9:38 pm**

Jason, how asinine is it for you to go through MIP after pastoring for 5 years? What would you gain from it? Can't there be a waiver put in place for guys like yourself?
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **9/11/12 12:58 am**

I agree there should be a waiver for people like Jason who are already pastoring.

It's been about 30 years since we wen through the program, and the major thrust of our ministry has not been pastoring, but rather children's ministry. It would also be good to concentrate some time on things besides being a lead pastor. We had no idea at the time we were headed in that direction, but we have since realized it was during that nine month period that my husband first picked up a puppet and changed the course of our ministry.

Probably the main thing that stuck with us through the years is a phrase someone in MIP taught us, "Find a heart and mend it. Find a hurt and heal it." This came to life when one of the couples in our class of MIP students lost a child to a school bus accident. I can't tell you one thing I remember reading during that time, but that incident and the sessions with the pastors teaching us are what impacted us in a big way.
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