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 Lordship salvation? |
Resident Skeptic |
I'm sure the term means different things to different people.
For my part, I no longer tell people to "make Jesus your Savior".
Rather, I tell them to surrender to Jesus as their Lord. Only by making him Lord will he be your Savior.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
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6/30/17 11:34 pm
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| Re: Lordship salvation? |
bradfreeman |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | I'm sure the term means different things to different people.
For my part, I no longer tell people to "make Jesus your Savior".
Rather, I tell them to surrender to Jesus as their Lord. Only by making him Lord will he be your Savior. |
Does use of this terminology imply that we can't be saved if we don't commit to doing everything He asks? If so, what does He ask?
If so, doesn't that run afoul of Rom 12:1 or Col 3:1-8 or 1 John 3:1-3 which encourage us, in view of Him saving us, to do everything He asks?
Isn't Romans 10:9,10 faith (believing in your heart) that Jesus is Lord (has been raised by the Father from the dead and seated in the highest place in Heaven) and agreeing or confessing (homosexual-logeo) that Jesus is Lord, all that is needed to be saved?
Do you also tell people that our Lord's commands aren't burdensome, but simply to believe and let our faith in His love for us produce love in us - that His yoke is easy?
1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Last edited by bradfreeman on 7/2/17 10:48 am; edited 2 times in total |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
7/1/17 8:25 am
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| Re: Lordship salvation? |
Quiet Wyatt |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | I'm sure the term means different things to different people.
For my part, I no longer tell people to "make Jesus your Savior".
Rather, I tell them to surrender to Jesus as their Lord. Only by making him Lord will he be your Savior. |
Amen. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
7/1/17 9:25 am
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| Re: Lordship salvation? |
Resident Skeptic |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | I'm sure the term means different things to different people.
For my part, I no longer tell people to "make Jesus your Savior".
Rather, I tell them to surrender to Jesus as their Lord. Only by making him Lord will he be your Savior. |
Does use of this terminology imply that we can't be saved if we don't commit to doing everything He asks? If so, what does He ask?
If so, doesn't that run afoul of Rom 12:1 or Col 3:1-8 or 1 John 3:1-3 which encourage us, in view of Him saving us, to do everything He asks?
Isn't Romans 10:9,10 faith (believing in your heart) that Jesus is Lord (has been raised by the Father from the dead and seated in the highest place in Heaven) and agreeing or confessing (homosexual-logeo) that Jesus is Lord, all that is needed to be saved?
Do you also tell people that our Lord's commands aren't burdensome, but simply to believe and let our faith in His love for us produce love in us - that His yoke is easy?
1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. |
I'll explain so it is easy to understand. We come to him making no promises, only surrendering to his Lordship, trusting him by his Spirit to daily make us what he wants us to be. We surrender to his lordship as we are, sinful. By surrendering our being to his Lordship, God then forgives us for Christ;s sake.
The message of the gospel is the lordship of Christ. The forgiveness of sins is a byproduct of that message. But Christ is the focus of the gospel, not us.
Peter makes it clear in Acts 5 that obedience to his lordship is a requirement to be saved by washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost...
| Quote: |
" We are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Ghost who God has given to those who OBEY him" |
(Acts 5:32)
And what "obedience" to receive the Spirit is Peter referring to? Look back a couple of verses...
| Quote: | 30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross.
31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins. |
Notice the order here. His exaltation first, our forgiveness second. We obey God to receive the Spirit by submitting to the Lordship of his Son, then God forgives us for Christ's sake.
"Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved", not "believe on the SAVIOR Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved".
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Last edited by Resident Skeptic on 7/2/17 10:59 am; edited 2 times in total |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
7/1/17 12:33 pm
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| Re: Lordship salvation? |
Dean Steenburgh |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | I'm sure the term means different things to different people.
For my part, I no longer tell people to "make Jesus your Savior".
Rather, I tell them to surrender to Jesus as their Lord. Only by making him Lord will he be your Savior. |
Does use of this terminology imply that we can't be saved if we don't commit to doing everything He asks? If so, what does He ask?
If so, doesn't that run afoul of Rom 12:1 or Col 3:1-8 or 1 John 3:1-3 which encourage us, in view of Him saving us, to do everything He asks?
Isn't Romans 10:9,10 faith (believing in your heart) that Jesus is Lord (has been raised by the Father from the dead and seated in the highest place in Heaven) and agreeing or confessing (homosexual-logeo) that Jesus is Lord, all that is needed to be saved?
Do you also tell people that our Lord's commands aren't burdensome, but simply to believe and let our faith in His love for us produce love in us - that His yoke is easy?
1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. |
Hello my brother, I may be one of the few that enjoys your challenges & often times I have to really double think what you mean & where you're going with some of your explanations & I think it's safe to say it requires research sometimes, but this one takes the cake.
What in the world does (homosexual-logeo) mean & how are you using it in your explanation above??
.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
7/1/17 9:46 pm
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| Re: Lordship salvation? |
bradfreeman |
| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | I'm sure the term means different things to different people.
For my part, I no longer tell people to "make Jesus your Savior".
Rather, I tell them to surrender to Jesus as their Lord. Only by making him Lord will he be your Savior. |
Does use of this terminology imply that we can't be saved if we don't commit to doing everything He asks? If so, what does He ask?
If so, doesn't that run afoul of Rom 12:1 or Col 3:1-8 or 1 John 3:1-3 which encourage us, in view of Him saving us, to do everything He asks?
Isn't Romans 10:9,10 faith (believing in your heart) that Jesus is Lord (has been raised by the Father from the dead and seated in the highest place in Heaven) and agreeing or confessing (homosexual-logeo) that Jesus is Lord, all that is needed to be saved?
Do you also tell people that our Lord's commands aren't burdensome, but simply to believe and let our faith in His love for us produce love in us - that His yoke is easy?
1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. |
Hello my brother, I may be one of the few that enjoys your challenges & often times I have to really double think what you mean & where you're going with some of your explanations & I think it's safe to say it requires research sometimes, but this one takes the cake.
What in the world does (homosexual-logeo) mean & how are you using it in your explanation above??
. |
 It means auto-correct won't let me type "homologeo" with a hyphen.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
7/2/17 10:47 am
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| Re: Lordship salvation? |
bradfreeman |
[quote="Resident Skeptic"]I'll explain so it is easy to understand. We come to him making no promises, only surrendering to his Lordship, trusting him by his Spirit to daily make us what he wants us to be. We surrender to his lordship as we are, sinful. By surrendering our being to his Lordship, God then forgives us for Christ;s sake.
The message of the gospel is the lordship of Christ. The forgiveness of sins is a byproduct of that message. But Christ is the focus of the gospel, not us. [quote]
Jesus is Lord. I'm not questioning that. But the message of the Gospel is that Jesus died our death, our judgment, our sin, our curse and the religious tree of death that brought all of this on us away and was raised with our new life and exalted with us to the highest place in Heaven. He IS our life, our Lord, our Savior...we are ONE with Him, seated with Him, hidden with Him, created in Him.
Our obedience is our faith in Him, who He is and who He has made us in Him.
| Quote: | Peter makes it clear in Acts 5 that obedience to his lordship is a requirement to be saved by washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost...
| Quote: |
" We are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Ghost who God has given to those who OBEY him" |
(Acts 5:32)
And what "obedience" to receive the Spirit is Peter referring to? Look back a couple of verses...
| Quote: | 30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross.
31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins. |
Notice the order here. His exaltation first, our forgiveness second.
"Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved", not "believe on the SAVIOR Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved". |
Again, no argument as to who Jesus is. But His command is to believe and let His love for us produce His love in us (see 1 Jn 3:23)...so our obedience is faith.
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:16,17
With the heart man believes. Rom 10:10
"But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered." Rom 6:17
Old covenant obedience was from the hands, in the flesh, the outside of the cup.
New covenant obedience is from the heart, in the spirit, the inside of the cup.
What was the "sin" and "disobedience" that kept the Hebrews out of rest?
"Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Heb 3:17-19
If "unbelief" is your sin and disobedience that keeps you out, what is the obedience that gets you in?
For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’” Heb. 4:3
How do you "obey the truth?"
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Gal 3:1,2
You obey the truth by believing it when you hear it, not by keeping religious rules (the law).
I can give you many more if you need them, but our new covenant obedience is faith in Him, His position and our position in Him. He earned it by His obedience, we receive it as a gift by faith.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
7/2/17 11:00 am
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| Re: Lordship salvation? |
Dean Steenburgh |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | I'm sure the term means different things to different people.
For my part, I no longer tell people to "make Jesus your Savior".
Rather, I tell them to surrender to Jesus as their Lord. Only by making him Lord will he be your Savior. |
Does use of this terminology imply that we can't be saved if we don't commit to doing everything He asks? If so, what does He ask?
If so, doesn't that run afoul of Rom 12:1 or Col 3:1-8 or 1 John 3:1-3 which encourage us, in view of Him saving us, to do everything He asks?
Isn't Romans 10:9,10 faith (believing in your heart) that Jesus is Lord (has been raised by the Father from the dead and seated in the highest place in Heaven) and agreeing or confessing (homosexual-logeo) that Jesus is Lord, all that is needed to be saved?
Do you also tell people that our Lord's commands aren't burdensome, but simply to believe and let our faith in His love for us produce love in us - that His yoke is easy?
1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. |
Hello my brother, I may be one of the few that enjoys your challenges & often times I have to really double think what you mean & where you're going with some of your explanations & I think it's safe to say it requires research sometimes, but this one takes the cake.
What in the world does (homosexual-logeo) mean & how are you using it in your explanation above??
. |
It means auto-correct won't let me type "homologeo" with a hyphen. |
Thx for the correction.
I even googled it to make sure it wasn't some weird out there Greek thing that has double meanings and blah blah blah hahahahaha
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
7/2/17 11:56 am
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| Re: Lordship salvation? |
Resident Skeptic |
.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
7/2/17 12:39 pm
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| Re: Lordship salvation? |
Resident Skeptic |
[quote="bradfreeman"][quote="Resident Skeptic"]I'll explain so it is easy to understand. We come to him making no promises, only surrendering to his Lordship, trusting him by his Spirit to daily make us what he wants us to be. We surrender to his lordship as we are, sinful. By surrendering our being to his Lordship, God then forgives us for Christ;s sake.
The message of the gospel is the lordship of Christ. The forgiveness of sins is a byproduct of that message. But Christ is the focus of the gospel, not us. | Quote: |
Jesus is Lord. I'm not questioning that. But the message of the Gospel is that Jesus died our death, our judgment, our sin, our curse and the religious tree of death that brought all of this on us away and was raised with our new life and exalted with us to the highest place in Heaven. He IS our life, our Lord, our Savior...we are ONE with Him, seated with Him, hidden with Him, created in Him.
Our obedience is our faith in Him, who He is and who He has made us in Him.
| Quote: | Peter makes it clear in Acts 5 that obedience to his lordship is a requirement to be saved by washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost...
| Quote: |
" We are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Ghost who God has given to those who OBEY him" |
(Acts 5:32)
And what "obedience" to receive the Spirit is Peter referring to? Look back a couple of verses...
| Quote: | 30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross.
31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins. |
Notice the order here. His exaltation first, our forgiveness second.
"Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved", not "believe on the SAVIOR Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved". |
Again, no argument as to who Jesus is. But His command is to believe and let His love for us produce His love in us (see 1 Jn 3:23)...so our obedience is faith.
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:16,17
With the heart man believes. Rom 10:10
"But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered." Rom 6:17
Old covenant obedience was from the hands, in the flesh, the outside of the cup.
New covenant obedience is from the heart, in the spirit, the inside of the cup.
What was the "sin" and "disobedience" that kept the Hebrews out of rest?
"Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Heb 3:17-19
If "unbelief" is your sin and disobedience that keeps you out, what is the obedience that gets you in?
For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’” Heb. 4:3
How do you "obey the truth?"
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Gal 3:1,2
You obey the truth by believing it when you hear it, not by keeping religious rules (the law).
I can give you many more if you need them, but our new covenant obedience is faith in Him, His position and our position in Him. He earned it by His obedience, we receive it as a gift by faith. |
Everything you cite here flows through the fact that he has been exalted and declared to be both Lord and Christ by the Father. Therefore, if you do not submit to him as Lord, you don't get to partake in any of the promises you cite here. It's more than just assenting mentally to the fact that he is Lord. It is submitting to his lordship.
What is the context of Peter's statement in Acts 5:32? This is a very simple question that requires that you only read back a couple of verses to determine the answer.
You cited Galatians....
| Quote: |
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Gal 3:1,2 |
What was the message they had initially believed? That Jesus is LORD. By making him Lord ("obeying" as mentioned in Acts 5), they received the Spirit.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
7/2/17 12:44 pm
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bradfreeman |
Acts 5:29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. 31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
We obey His commandment by believing that Jesus is Lord and letting our confidence rest in Him.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
7/3/17 6:26 am
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Resident Skeptic |
| bradfreeman wrote: | Acts 5:29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. 31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
We obey His commandment by believing that Jesus is Lord and letting our confidence rest in Him. |
It is a submission to his lordship, not just a mental ascent. Every knee BOWS as Paul said in Philippians. That signifies submission.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
7/3/17 12:45 pm
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bradfreeman |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | Acts 5:29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. 31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
We obey His commandment by believing that Jesus is Lord and letting our confidence rest in Him. |
It is a submission to his lordship, not just a mental ascent. Every knee BOWS as Paul said in Philippians. That signifies submission. |
Paul says every knee "will bow and every tongue confess." Surely you aren't suggesting everyone will be saved. They are submitted to His lordship, but it doesn't save them.
Phil 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
It is faith. Where is your confidence toward God? Is it in your ability to blamelessly keep the rules (as Paul explained in Phil 3)? Or is your confidence in the God who makes us righteous on the basis of faith.
Each of us goes astray, each to his own way. That's precisely why He laid on Him the iniquity of us all. We don't get forgiven because we stop going our own way. We get forgiven as a gift because we can't stop going our own way. It's a gift. Then He creates us anew, moves inside and begins to produce the fruit of His life in us, His Spirit in us.
It seems to me that your idea of "lordship salvation" simply demands something from those apart from God that they cannot do. What they can do is obey His command to believe, then they begin to bear the fruit of love as He commanded. Any every time they fail, He remembers there sin no more and does not take their sin into account. This is how you can be hidden with Christ in God and have behavior issues to "put...aside."
Col 3:3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. 5 Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. 6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience, 7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.
We don't put them aside in order to become hidden with Christ in God. We put them aside because we are hidden with Christ in God.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
7/3/17 1:10 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | Acts 5:29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. 31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
We obey His commandment by believing that Jesus is Lord and letting our confidence rest in Him. |
It is a submission to his lordship, not just a mental ascent. Every knee BOWS as Paul said in Philippians. That signifies submission. |
Paul says every knee "will bow and every tongue confess." Surely you aren't suggesting everyone will be saved. They are submitted to His lordship, but it doesn't save them.
Phil 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
It is faith. Where is your confidence toward God? Is it in your ability to blamelessly keep the rules (as Paul explained in Phil 3)? Or is your confidence in the God who makes us righteous on the basis of faith.
Each of us goes astray, each to his own way. That's precisely why He laid on Him the iniquity of us all. We don't get forgiven because we stop going our own way. We get forgiven as a gift because we can't stop going our own way. It's a gift. Then He creates us anew, moves inside and begins to produce the fruit of His life in us, His Spirit in us.
It seems to me that your idea of "lordship salvation" simply demands something from those apart from God that they cannot do. What they can do is obey His command to believe, then they begin to bear the fruit of love as He commanded. Any every time they fail, He remembers there sin no more and does not take their sin into account. This is how you can be hidden with Christ in God and have behavior issues to "put...aside."
Col 3:3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. 5 Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. 6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience, 7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.
We don't put them aside in order to become hidden with Christ in God. We put them aside because we are hidden with Christ in God. |
Again, every promise you cite in scripture concerning salvation is contingent upon submitting to the lordship of Christ.
This is not something they cannot do. This is simply a matter of surrender to his lordship so his Spirit can begin the work of creating in them a clean heart.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
7/3/17 1:52 pm
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bradfreeman |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | Acts 5:29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. 31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
We obey His commandment by believing that Jesus is Lord and letting our confidence rest in Him. |
It is a submission to his lordship, not just a mental ascent. Every knee BOWS as Paul said in Philippians. That signifies submission. |
Paul says every knee "will bow and every tongue confess." Surely you aren't suggesting everyone will be saved. They are submitted to His lordship, but it doesn't save them.
Phil 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
It is faith. Where is your confidence toward God? Is it in your ability to blamelessly keep the rules (as Paul explained in Phil 3)? Or is your confidence in the God who makes us righteous on the basis of faith.
Each of us goes astray, each to his own way. That's precisely why He laid on Him the iniquity of us all. We don't get forgiven because we stop going our own way. We get forgiven as a gift because we can't stop going our own way. It's a gift. Then He creates us anew, moves inside and begins to produce the fruit of His life in us, His Spirit in us.
It seems to me that your idea of "lordship salvation" simply demands something from those apart from God that they cannot do. What they can do is obey His command to believe, then they begin to bear the fruit of love as He commanded. Any every time they fail, He remembers there sin no more and does not take their sin into account. This is how you can be hidden with Christ in God and have behavior issues to "put...aside."
Col 3:3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. 5 Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. 6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience, 7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them. 8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.
We don't put them aside in order to become hidden with Christ in God. We put them aside because we are hidden with Christ in God. |
Again, every promise you cite in scripture concerning salvation is contingent upon submitting to the lordship of Christ.
This is not something they cannot do. This is simply a matter of surrender to his lordship so his Spirit can begin the work of creating in them a clean heart. |
So Acts 5:32 is your basis? If so, then I understand your basis. Thanks.
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
7/3/17 2:21 pm
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