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My essay includes: Is speaking in tongues still valid today?

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1702 **6/10/11 10:47 am**

I'm attending Liberty University finishing my B.S. and this semester I'm taking Theology 201.

It's been a great learning so far. However this week I have to complete an essay on Spiritual gifts and specifically on the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.

One of the specific questions I must answer is :Is speaking in tongues still valid today?

Should be an interesting critique for me I'm sure.

Didn't want this post to turn into a hard or serious discussion, just thought my Pentecostal background will make this essay a little interesting.

Patrick
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Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4295 **6/10/11 12:25 pm**

What have you been "officially" taught about this subject at Liberty U ?

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1702 **6/10/11 12:29 pm**

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **6/10/11 1:20 pm**

do they want to know what they believe or you believe?

if the former - give em what they want and take your "A".

Otherwise, take your F like a man.
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Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1702 **6/10/11 1:25 pm**

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4295 **6/10/11 1:32 pm**

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4295 **6/10/11 1:40 pm**

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **6/10/11 4:11 pm**

It's good you are going to do your best to argue for the truth. Grades are no excuse for hypocrisy. And C and Ds get degrees.

Unless your in grad school, where B's get degrees.

I'd argue that the idea that tongues is valid is the 'default view' for the following reasons.

1. I Corinthians 12 states that this is among the manifestations of the Spirit given to profit withal.
2. We live in the last days characterized by the outpouring of the Spirit as in Acts 2.
3. If the Two Witnesses are in the future, the gift of prophecy has not ceased, so why would tongues.

I would also show the fallacy of some of the arguments that tongues have ceased.

1. I Corinthians 13-- is our speech, knowledge, and understanding so far beyond an author of scripture's that we can call his understanding (much of which is recorded in scripture) childish in comparison to our own?
2. Pointing out how convoluted the argument is for the cessation of tongues based on the quote from Isaiah 20 in I Corinthians 14, and how this has nothing to do with the point Paul actually makes from the passage.

Without any scripture teaching that tongues has already ceased, there is no reason to believe it has.

I'd also mention I Corinthians 1:7.

Please let us know later how Liberty handles students who do not conform to their doctrinal opinions. I suspect a number of people on Acts may be interested in their online programs. I've thought about getting a Masters in theology or something similar after I get done with my PhD.
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Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1702 **6/10/11 6:09 pm**

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **6/10/11 7:19 pm**

I love that kind of stuff!! I would love to read what you come up with. Please post it when you've completed it.

One thing to include, I believe, is the community of faith. Pentecostals are included in the community of faith, mainstream Christianity. Talk about the percentage of those who believe the gifts are valid. Somewhere, it was recorded that 25% of Southern Baptist say they have experienced the gifts of the Holy Spirit. That would be good to include.

Fun stuff!!

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1702 **6/10/11 7:29 pm**

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **6/10/11 8:08 pm**

Just in case.....because SO many people assume....Andy is NOT Southern Baptist and neither is North Point....not that there's anything wrong with being Southern Baptist.

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1702 **6/10/11 8:39 pm**

Thanks

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1702 **6/10/11 8:44 pm**

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.

There are about 8 questions that have to be answered in a 800 word essay.
Yeah, I know not very big essay.

The last question is the one about: Is speaking in tongues still valid today?

For the record, I really like Liberty. The instructors challenge you in each course to affirm what you believe and back it up with scripture.
Boy... am I learning a hard lesson.

Patrick
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We are beating the bushes for mice and the lions are tearing us apart.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **6/10/11 8:54 pm**

A/G scholar Dr. Gordon Fee has some excellent responses to the cessationist argument in his commentary on 1 Corinthians.

Interesting!

Acts-celerater Posts: 704 **6/10/11 10:03 pm**

It's gonna be very interesting to see which side is right on this issue. After all, both sides base their views on "man's" interpretation of scripture. I grew up in the COG and for the past 20 years have been in a non-Pentecostal church so I agree with some points from each side. That is why I can't wait to see who is right. Just like the issue of "eternal security".......I wanna know God's view on these issues. As long as people don't go so far overboard as to say "if you don't speak in tongues you're not saved" or "if you don't repent after every single sin you commit then you're going to hell. Especially if God were to come back between the time your sin happened and before you were able to get the quick "forgive me of my sins" prayer out of your mouth. There are so many gray areas in scripture that have caused so many relationships and churches to be divided......so sad. If we would concentrate on the key issues of scripture such as the Great Commission we could get so much done for the Kingdom.....pentecostals AND non-Pentecostals.

Where does it say Tongues have ceased?

Acts-celerate Owner Posts: 6957 **6/10/11 10:13 pm**

Upon hearing some Baptist friends talking about how Tongues have ceased, I asked "Where in the Bible does it say Tongues have ceased? We know they began. Almost every Baptist believes Tongues began and that even Mary, the Mother of Jesus was in the Upper Room when the Holy Spirit was poured out.

"The Bible goes to great lengths to be sure we know who the first people were who spoke in Tongues. It lists many of them in the first chapter of Acts. So, who was the last person to Speak In Tongues? Where does the Bible give that information or say Tongues have ceased? Surely the Lord would have let us know it wasn't a viable experience anymore.

"The Bible does share that there WILL COME A TIME when Tongues will cease. But it lists several other things that will cease then. Have those things yet ceased?"

There was a time when the United States did not recognize the existence of China. But that doesn't mean China ceased to exist. Some feel Tongues have ceased but we are told that about 500 million claim to be Pentecostal.

Wasn't it a recent Southern Baptist World Missions Director (Rankin) who was open about having spoken in Tongues? If so, then evidently Tongues have only ceased in the past 15 years or so.

I don't remember the source but have read that 15 percent of Baptists say they have spoken in Tongues. If that is true, then the Southern Baptist organization may have the most Pentecostals of any organization including the Church of God and Assembly of God.

18 million claim to be members of the Southern Baptist Convention. 15 percent of that would be a larger number than the COG or Assembly of God.

How can that be? What percentage of COG members have spoken in Tongues? What percentage of Assembly of God members speak in Tongues - a very small percentage. Compare those percentages to the 15 percent of Southern Baptists who claim to have spoken in Tongues and it may very well be that more people who Speak In Tongues, attend Southern Baptist churches than some of the notable Pentecostal organizations.

Doyle
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Re: Interesting!

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/11/11 10:02 am**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/11/11 11:05 am**

What I found so sad and disheartening about Gardoski's paper is that he had expressed a desire to have all God wanted for him, but found a way to project onto scripture his bias in order to justify being closed to speaking in tongues. If that wasn't enough, he also seemed to offer that justification to console others who might feel they are "missing something."

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/11/11 11:19 am**

Another point in Gradoski's paper is that Jack Hayford called tongues a "heavenly language."
I don't know if Hayford believes that tongues are sometimes in a language that is not human, but I once heard him on TV addressing the fact that there are 6,000 extant human languages, so it would be hard to dismiss something as mere gobbledegook simply because it doesn't sound like a human language to us. He gave the example of a man who had a testimony of speaking in tongues using one syllable. A missionary who heard the testimony said he had ministered to an obscure tribe that spoke that way.
Hayford also said he one gave a message that turned out to be Taiwanese (if I remember correctly) which a Taiwanese seeker heard and found to be a sign that tongues are for today.