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Jamie Noel |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Well, I wonder who their "ministry partners" are. The pastor Steve Furtick of Elevation Church lives in a 16,000 sq. ft. house and has his salary set by a selected group of mega pastors (such as Ed Young Jr.). |
The have an annual report made available to their members that shows where that money goes and to which ministry partner. Their partners consist of local, state, national, and international ministries...including missions. I know this because of personal contacts within the organization.
As for his salary and housing, he does not take a church salary. He makes his income from his music, books, and speaking engagements. So I say good for him......
Leave it to you to bait the hook and start the negativity about a great ministry.
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Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1138
3/11/17 10:47 am
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bonnie knox |
I could say a lot more about Steve Furtick.
I'm saying I would not hold up the model of Elevation Church as a model of what is right with the evangelical church in the US and as a model of growth. In order to address the issue of overall church decline in the US, you would have to know if the people who are attending Elevation are the previously "unchurched" or if they've moved from other churches.
(We had a nice young couple in our church who moved there to be on staff.)
As far as making a salary from books and speaking engagements, yes, mega church pastors can do that once they've benefitted from their position enough to get the name recognition. The church buys enough books to get them on the New York Times Best Sellers list, their mega church pastor friends invite them to speak and they return the favor, with the congregation footing the bill.
Honestly, if you are looking at the big picture, I think you will find people who are done or at least disillusioned with the institutionalized church because of celebrity pastors who are living luxurious lifestyles and seemingly unconcerned with tending sheep.
"Am I now become your enemy because I tell you the truth?" |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
3/11/17 11:01 am
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Jamie Noel |
| bonnie knox wrote: | I could say a lot more about Steve Furtick.
I'm saying I would not hold up the model of Elevation Church as a model of what is right with the evangelical church in the US and as a model of growth. In order to address the issue of overall church decline in the US, you would have to know if the people who are attending Elevation are the previously "unchurched" or if they've moved from other churches.
(We had a nice young couple in our church who moved there to be on staff.)
As far as making a salary from books and speaking engagements, yes, mega church pastors can do that once they've benefitted from their position enough to get the name recognition. The church buys enough books to get them on the New York Times Best Sellers list, their mega church pastor friends invite them to speak and they return the favor, with the congregation footing the bill.
Honestly, if you are looking at the big picture, I think you will find people who are done or at least disillusioned with the institutionalized church because of celebrity pastors who are living luxurious lifestyles and seemingly unconcerned with tending sheep.
"Am I now become your enemy because I tell you the truth?" |
You are not my enemy but rather uninformed about Steven Furtick. You're looking at certain aspects of his ministry and success without fully knowing the man and ministry. I can tell you from experience that the man is fully concerned with tending sheep and finding the lost. Just 2 weeks ago I was in service where dozens responded to his invitation to receive Christ. They have an amazing follow up system to plug people directly into discipleship groups. People are growing....lives are changing. Fish are being caught....
Have their been past celebrity pastors who have abused the sheep? Absolutely. There have also been small church pastors who do the same as they elevate themselves into something they aren't. Corruption in some does not corrupt the whole church. I just grow very weary of the criticism ministers receive because of their salary, house, church size, or whatever we can say is wrong with them. I will say again, some of these men that are harshly criticized are reaching more people for Christ than any of us could every dream. I would rather find the good in these men, and keep my criticisms to myself while trusting God to work out their faults. God is bigger than me, God is bigger than you, Bonnie. And I think He doesn't need either of us to be his "pastor police force."
I have pastored for the past 20 years. I don't pastor a large church. I don't live in a 16,000 square foot house. I don't write music or books. But I have been criticized, falsely accused, slandered, and mocked. Why? Because there are just corrupt people out there. Does that make all church people bad? No. Just like it doesn't make all mega church pastors bad. But for some reason, when I have bought a new car, motorcycle, gone on vacation, moved into a new house, got my teeth fixed, all things other church people have done, I am criticized. I will never understand why people choose to focus on non-eternal things.
I say we look past all the externals and simply ask if they are participating in the Great Commission.
Thanks for letting me chew your ear. Take care....
_________________
Stay Positive! |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1138
3/11/17 4:57 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
| Jamie Noel wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | I could say a lot more about Steve Furtick.
I'm saying I would not hold up the model of Elevation Church as a model of what is right with the evangelical church in the US and as a model of growth. In order to address the issue of overall church decline in the US, you would have to know if the people who are attending Elevation are the previously "unchurched" or if they've moved from other churches.
(We had a nice young couple in our church who moved there to be on staff.)
As far as making a salary from books and speaking engagements, yes, mega church pastors can do that once they've benefitted from their position enough to get the name recognition. The church buys enough books to get them on the New York Times Best Sellers list, their mega church pastor friends invite them to speak and they return the favor, with the congregation footing the bill.
Honestly, if you are looking at the big picture, I think you will find people who are done or at least disillusioned with the institutionalized church because of celebrity pastors who are living luxurious lifestyles and seemingly unconcerned with tending sheep.
"Am I now become your enemy because I tell you the truth?" |
You are not my enemy but rather uninformed about Steven Furtick. You're looking at certain aspects of his ministry and success without fully knowing the man and ministry. I can tell you from experience that the man is fully concerned with tending sheep and finding the lost. Just 2 weeks ago I was in service where dozens responded to his invitation to receive Christ. They have an amazing follow up system to plug people directly into discipleship groups. People are growing....lives are changing. Fish are being caught....
Have their been past celebrity pastors who have abused the sheep? Absolutely. There have also been small church pastors who do the same as they elevate themselves into something they aren't. Corruption in some does not corrupt the whole church. I just grow very weary of the criticism ministers receive because of their salary, house, church size, or whatever we can say is wrong with them. I will say again, some of these men that are harshly criticized are reaching more people for Christ than any of us could every dream. I would rather find the good in these men, and keep my criticisms to myself while trusting God to work out their faults. God is bigger than me, God is bigger than you, Bonnie. And I think He doesn't need either of us to be his "pastor police force."
I have pastored for the past 20 years. I don't pastor a large church. I don't live in a 16,000 square foot house. I don't write music or books. But I have been criticized, falsely accused, slandered, and mocked. Why? Because there are just corrupt people out there. Does that make all church people bad? No. Just like it doesn't make all mega church pastors bad. But for some reason, when I have bought a new car, motorcycle, gone on vacation, moved into a new house, got my teeth fixed, all things other church people have done, I am criticized. I will never understand why people choose to focus on non-eternal things.
I say we look past all the externals and simply ask if they are participating in the Great Commission.
Thanks for letting me chew your ear. Take care.... |
I like your response Jamie!
I could learn diplomacy from you 
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_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
3/11/17 5:17 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
Our local 'Big Box' A/G has a pastor who already had a big name.
He didn't use his church to become a big name.
His former church ministry exploded to the point he was in big demand on the speaking circuits.
I know this man & I have had rather intense personal conversations with him. When he got to this local church here in town it was a huge church but under his ministry it has exploded in attendance numbers.
Every year they do massive crusades of different types and after each mega-crusade they challenge the attenders to go back to the other churches here in the surrounding area & support them & to get involved.
I know about his salary - he receives a salary from his church & he receives a salary from his international ministry.
His church does not fund his personal ministry but his personal ministry does in fact tithe (10+%) back to the local church.
When he travels he takes his wife & his own personal ministry staff with him & they do not charge the church for their travels or expenses.
His finances are covered by his book sales & speaking engagements. I like what his ministry stands for because he always tries to bring in the small ministry programs & challenges people to support those smaller ministries.
As a result of always trying to teach others to give they now run 3 packed out services every Sunday & another packed out service on Monday & Wednesday.
On a personal note I remember when our church building was too small & we rented a large building for 2 years. During that 2 years our numbers began to adapt to the larger building & we more than doubled.
We eventually bought another church facility but it was smaller than the one we were renting & over a period of about 18 months our attendance went down ...way down.
In the last 12 months our attendance has grown again & we're almost at 80% capacity every service.
We don't have the 3,000 sq. foot game arcade or the Lord's Gym for workouts nor do we have the fog & light show for worship & we still will not let you bring coffee into the chapel.
But we have had a Monday night prayer meeting for over 20 years now & we have 4 churches using this facility for worship every Saturday & Sunday.
I'm still excited & looking forward to the return of Christ!
.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
3/11/17 5:35 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | You're looking at certain aspects of his ministry and success without fully knowing the man and ministry. |
You don't know how much I know. I mentioned something that is simple to verify objectively because I don't want to get into a big defense of other areas that would be more cumbersome to explain when the issue is the overall decline in the US and not just in one church or another. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
3/11/17 7:19 pm
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