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So, have we come to a conclusion on the woman question in 1 Cor 14 or leaders?

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11798 **3/20/23 12:41 pm**

Some say women are fine, that was a cultural thing Paul was addressing. Then again, is everything culture in 1 Cor 14?

I would like serious responses here.

My thought...

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1607 **3/21/23 11:20 am**

If you combine vs 14 and 15 it seems to me that Paul is addressing interruptions in the service to ask questions, and not teaching/preaching in the service.

This topic has been debated on this forum

Member Posts: 39 **3/24/23 2:28 pm**

For many years. I was banned by a former admin as the poster brotherjames. Here is what I wrote back in 2019.
WOMEN IN MINISTRY

PREAMBLE:
There is much for us to understand regarding women in Ministry. The word of God must always be interpreted by considering all of the scripture, from beginning to end, from Genesis to Revelation. The ï¿½Full Counselï¿½ of Godï¿½s Word must be taken in the context written, not taking one verse out of context and then trying to build a doctrine based upon our preconceived biases.
The Assemblies of God, since the beginnings of our movement, believes in the supernatural ennoblement and gifting of the Holy Spirit. We have as a movement been blessed by many gifted women over the past century. In doing so, we see the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-29 in the Book of Acts, especially Acts 2:16-18. ï¿½This is that...ï¿½. Therefore, we as a movement and more importantly as part of the universal Body of Christ must recognize that when God speaks through His Word, He intends it to prevail for all eternity (ï¿½heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall not pass awayï¿½ Luke 21:13). So when He says, ï¿½your daughters shall prophesy... and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my Spiritï¿½, we must realize this is the Truth for all time.
We all agree that the Bible is always our final authority for all Truth taught. Yet there is much debate in some circles regarding the role of women in spiritual leadership and particularly in the government of the local church and in the greater scope of the Body at large.

SCRIPTURAL REFERENCES:
Let us examine in detail some of the more perplexing scriptures that have given rise to this honest debate among sincere Christians, even Spirit-Baptized believers.
The most problems stem from these two passages that the Apostle Paul wrote:
1 Corinthians 14: 34-36 & 1 Timothy 2: 11-12
These words have often been misinterpreted (innocently and not so innocently) and have been a source of perplexity to the Body, especially to many women who have a burning in their souls for service to the Lord. Many denominations have forbidden women to teach, preach, testify, or even pray audibly in church, based upon these scriptures.
Let us consider the whole counsel of Godï¿½s Word. In the Genesis account of creation, there is no sign of inequality between the sexes. In Genesis 1:26-28 both men & women were to subdue and have dominion over everything on earth. We must sometimes be reminded that Woman was taken from Adamï¿½s side, not his foot and made as a helpmeet to man. This word for helper in the Hebrew is never understood as a subordinate role, rather it means suitable or one ï¿½correspondingï¿½ to Adam.
However, after the fall, a curse was laid upon the wife. This curse fell upon Eve, not as a woman, but as a wife. Women are not placed in a lower rank to men. However, there is a different relationship and distinction made between a husband and a wife. Wives do have a subordinate place in the family but not in the Lord. And yet even in the familial role, there is a lack of understanding as to what Genesis 3 is speaking of after the Fall when God says, ï¿½Man shall rule over you.ï¿½ The rule there is not dominion, it is in fact an understanding that no longer will God be first in her life naturally but now she will fight the impulse to put her devotion for her husband before her God. That is the curse. But God never intended for that to be the case and in Christ the possibility exists for both men and women to put God back on His throne in their lives by putting Him first ï¿½ naturally. Galatians 3:28 says ï¿½There is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ." Jesus showed us the way it would be in Heaven, (Mat 22:30 KJV) "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.ï¿½

Why would that be? Because in Heaven we will have glorified bodies, that is to say spiritual bodies. After all, God is Spirit and we shall be like Him. Therefore God places no limitations on the spiritual. What we have done is taken the relationship of husbands and wives and made these distinctions and limitations a part of our culture relating to womenï¿½s roles rather than to wives roles! In the Spiritual realm there are neither distinctions nor limitations made by God. Gal. 3:28. In fact, women are called ï¿½Sons of God" I John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God." John was writing to the entire church. In fact 3 John starts out, "to the elect lady" (most agree it is a church not only 'just for a woman). The verse continues... "and it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that, when He appears we will be like Him: for we shall see Him as He is." Women will be like Him as much as men will, for we will ALL be spiritual.
So what is Paul trying to say to us in I Corinthians 14:34-36? ï¿½Women keep silent in the churchesï¿½:
In the original Greek, there is only one word for woman or wife, the word ï¿½Guneï¿½. This word can be interpreted either as woman or wife depending upon the context of the sentence or usage. There is also only one word for man - none for husband. Verse 34 must be talking about a wife not a woman because in the context of the two verses taken together the word for man is translated husband in vs. 35 because the word home is used. Verse 35 says, ï¿½If they will learn, let them ask their husbands at home.ï¿½ Since not all women have husbands, the sentence is better translated ï¿½Let your wives keep silence.ï¿½
Why would Paul tell the wives to keep silent and learn at home? In order to understand this better, you need to know how the early church (and the Jewish synagogues even today) was structured. There were cultural differences from today. The women/wives/girls were seated or stood on one side of the room while the men/husbands/boys were on the other side of the room. Can you imagine the discord (see Vs 33 confusion) that could arise if a wife were to ask a question of her husband on the other side of the room? Can you hear the chattering as women (who were not allowed to be educated in some cultures would talk among themselves to get an answer (learn at home)? In other words, he seems to be saying 1) donï¿½t chatter 2) donï¿½t disrupt by asking questions. As we see, the ï¿½whole counsel of Godï¿½ must be used, for in 1 Cor. 11:5 Paul is certainly permitting women to pray and prophesy in corporate services.
Let us consider the other problem passage, I Timothy 2:11-15 ï¿½A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.ï¿½ Paul again is not talking about women but wives here. Consider the fact that Paul is referring to Adam and Eve - husband and wife. Again, ask your husband at home, so as not to cause confusion in church meeting. Implying men were better informed than women were. In addition, it seems highly plausible that Paul is here addressing to Timothy some of the problems that this particular church (Ephesus) was having. There were some heretical teachings and practices going on and some of the problem was coming from the Ephesian women/wives. If you read the entire passage from 1 Timothy 2:9-15 you get a picture of a unique heresy involving these women.

Paul is making an application for this church and not necessarily an application universally applied to all churches for all time.

How can we say this?
As we have said in the beginning, all scripture should be interpreted in the light of what other scripture says from Genesis to Revelation.
I Corinthians 14:34 says, "Women keep silent in the church."
I Corinthians 11: 5 says, " Every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head." How can you prophesy and keep silent at the same time? (Some especially those who don't believe in gifts for today think prophesying is preaching). Acts 2:16,17 "this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will ï¿½see visions your old men will dream dreamsï¿½. This is what Joel prophesied and Peter said on the day of Pentecost. In Acts 1: 13-14, they were All (men/women) in the upper room. They continued ï¿½in prayer with the womenï¿½, so women were praying. Acts 5: 1 0 when the Holy Ghost fell on Cornelius' household they were All filled. Mary the mother of Jesus prophesied. Elizabeth the mother of John the Baptist prophesied. Luke 2:36 " Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel of the tribe of Asher." prophesied in the temple, she prayed night and day. The Bible calls Anna a prophetess, which is the feminine form of prophet. Miriam, Moses sister was a prophet. Deborah from the Book of Judges not only ruled Israel but she also was a prophetess. Hilkiah the High Priest went to Huldah the prophetess of God in 2 Kings 22:14 to find out for King Josiah the word of the Lord.
Paul certainly would not prevent women from speaking messages given to them by the Holy Ghost because the Lord says, ï¿½your daughters shall prophesyï¿½. Paul had to be saying, ï¿½I suffer not a wife to teach or usurp authority over her husbandï¿½ or if in fact he was dealing with a unique situation he was not telling us that women must not rule or teach men! In fact, regarding that women should not teach men, we see in Acts 18:26 that Aquila and Priscilla taught Apollos. Paul addresses in Rom. 16:3 Priscilla first when he salutes the church that meets at Priscilla and Aquilaï¿½s house ï¿½who have for my life laid down their own necksï¿½ (unusual to greet woman first, Paul respected women).
Again, we find the problem of translation in 1 Tim. 3:1-13 dealing with qualifications for ministry. While it is true that this passage deal primarily with male leadership, it is also true that it does so out of majority practices and expectations. Verse 11 also gives us some problems. The word translates wives here is the Greek ï¿½gunaikasï¿½ which can be translated as wives or women depending upon usage and the translatorï¿½s assumptions. One rendering gives us the impression of Deaconï¿½s wives while the other rendering leads us to female spiritual leadership in the church. We know in reading Paulï¿½s other epistles, especially Romans 16 that women in leadership roles were permitted. Romans 16:1-2 Phoebe is called a servant of the church. The Greek word diakonos translated here as servant. " I commend unto you Phoebe, a deaconessï¿½.
Paul wrote to the church at Rome to the men as well as women "assist her".
Roman 16:3-4 "Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers", Roman 16:12 ï¿½salute Tryphena and. Tryphosa who labour in the Lord; salute Persisï¿½. From the Greek we know these three are women. Rom. 16:7 Junia is a feminine name, she is called an Apostle.

JUST BECAUSE A PASSAGE IMPLIES MOST LEADERS WERE MEN DOES NOT AND CAN NOT BE MADE TO SAY WOMEN CANNOT BE LEADERS AS WELL.
Is the man the head of the woman? I Corinthians 11:3 says, ï¿½ the head of every man is Christ, head of the wife is the husband, head of Christ is God. Is every man the head of every woman? No. A man is the head of one woman, his wife. The Greek word for man and husband in the New Testament is the same. ï¿½A husband is the head of his wife.ï¿½ Paul in his writing is sometimes talking about women in general, other times he is strictly talking about wives. Christ is the head of the woman just as much as he is the head of man. Christ is the head of the Church. Paul was talking about family situations. He is not saying the husband is the wife's spiritual head. If that were true, the born-again wife, of an unsaved man, would not have a spiritual head. Jesus is the head of the Church. In Christ there is neither male nor female.
The first to go and. tell, (to preach means "to go tell") the good tiding of the Resurrection of Jesus was a woman. On the day of Pentecost and in Acts 4:31, they were all filled (men & women alike) with the Holy Ghost. In fact, Phillip had 4 daughters who were prophets (esses). Can women be ordained into the 5-fold ministry?

CONCLUSION:
In conclusion, we must remember, God is no respecter of persons, male or female. Husbands are to rule (in love) their homes with their wives in subjection to them (godly leadership). However, in the church of Jesus Christ, no matter our personal biases, there is neither male nor female. There may be practical problems that need to be addressed to deal with cultural situations but the ideal in Christ is for all to be submitted to the Lordship of Christ and be led by the Holy Spirit who gives gifts to (men/women) all flesh severally as He wills, not our wills! It is God who divinely calls and equips supernaturally and appoints and anoints for service and spiritual leadership. With the fields white unto harvest and the lack of harvesters available to reap, let us not be guilty of holding back any whom can help to bring in Godï¿½s bounty of souls. Let us rather consider how we may spur one another on towards love and good works and work while it is yet day!! May all of Godï¿½s vessels be available for and fit for the Masterï¿½s use! Member
Posts: 29
2/9/19 3:49 pm