Actscelerate.com

Will those who never heard Gospel be sent to hell?

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1607 **1/4/12 2:26 pm**

Here is a question that will likely stir controversy. Perhaps its been asked here before, but I don’t remember seeing it discussed.

Do those who have never heard the gospel get condemned to hell?
If so, why and how? If not, why and how?

I was reading Romans this week and came across this verse:
Romans 2:8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

The point that Paul is making is that God pours out indignation and wrath on those who “do not obey the truth.” The emphasis of this verse seems on those who “do not obey” the truth. So I looked that up and discovered these definitions.

Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionary gives this definition:
apeitheō
From G545; to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely): - not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving.

Thayer’s Greek Definitions offers this definition of the word/term
apeitheō
Thayer Definition:
1) not to allow one’s self to be persuaded
1a) to refuse or withhold belief
1b) to refuse belief and obedience
not to comply with

My question is, if a person has never heard, can they refuse to believe or reject what they have never been told? And if they have never heard to be able to accept or reject, can we say that a just God will condemn them with indignation and wrath?

Interested to read responses! (If I get some!)

cross reference

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **1/4/12 2:30 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/4/12 2:48 pm**

Especially this one:

Not necessarily....

Golf Cart Mafia Soldier Posts: 2295 **1/4/12 4:09 pm**

No good person goes to hell.

Period.

Show me ONE INSTANCE in the Bible where a good man goes to hell. Yet it is preached every Sunday in some Church of God pulpit. We claim that lots of good people are going to hell...and yet the scripture always indicates and implies that only people with issues like lying, adultery, etc. go to hell.

Go figure.

But that is not the point....

The point is does someone who has never heard of Jesus go to hell, do not pass Go, do not collect $200?

IT DEPENDS.

If that person has lived a good life according that law that is written in his heart (again, see Romans 2), we are led to believe that there is an "excusing" that come about.

Does that mean he/she can be saved without Jesus? NO!!! We know this is not possible.

So seemingly the only alternative left to us is to that they get some after-death opportunity to know Jesus. You know, like those "souls in prison" that Jesus preached to.

The thought then is that WHO in their right mind would reject Jesus when it is then PERFECTLY CLEAR that He is the Son of God? No one.

So it is my take that a good person who dies without having known Jesus, will come to know Him, will be saved, will have eternal life.

There is a difference between REJECTING JESUS and not having even heard of Him. It's amazing how many people Christians condemn to hell. Reminds me of those disciples that wanted to call down fire from heaven and destroy a city.

Acts-celerater Posts: 707 **1/4/12 4:52 pm**

Romans 1

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Ephesians 2:3
All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

None innocent, none have fulfilled the law.

FF has some good points

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **1/4/12 5:25 pm**

God is Good, God is Just, God is not mean. He has and can show wrath, but to good folk? NO!

The wind, the earth shows forth his handi-work, there are folk (in the wild) that admire and worship HIS handi work. But the wind does not whisper the name of Jesus to them, but God.

I know many do not agree, and hold the line, 'Jesus the only name given under heaven, etc.' In a land that has heard the Word and been evangelized, that is an absolute. I am not completely ignorant, but I know one cannot call on the name of Jesus if they have never heard it.

I believe an aborted baby goes to heaven, I believe God in his infinite wisdom knows someone in the darkest rain forest will not hear the name of Jesus before he dies therefore cannot call on Him. AND HE WILL JUDGE HIM RIGHTEOUSLY. To Hell? I doubt it, but He being God will be just.

YES I think there is a difference of the ones who have heard and have not. Just my opinion.

Nope we are dealing in the area of God's knowledge and expertise, He has never felt He needed to ask me.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/4/12 5:52 pm**

If an ignorant heathen who has never heard the gospel cries out to God for light, God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him, yes indeed. Cornelius in Acts 10 is a good example of this very thing, as is Paul's sermon on Mars Hill in Acts 17.

God by his prevenient grace draws all men to Christ, but not all submit to His tender voice. Most in fact "suppress the truth in righteousness" because the do not "want to retain the knowledge of God in their minds," as Romans 1 so plainly states.

There is no need for a postmortem opportunity if all men are truly without excuse for sin already, as Paul makes clear in the first three chapters of Romans, and if it is also true that God is a rewarder of them that diigently seek Him, as Hebrews says.

It is remarkable how many who would claim the blood of Christ cleanses them from sin, would somehow want to say that not all men need the blood of Christ to cleanse and reconcile them now to God (babies and small children excluded of course).

Not so fast, Wyatt....

Golf Cart Mafia Soldier Posts: 2295 **1/4/12 6:11 pm**

First, perhaps you weren't directing it at me, but I have NEVER said anyone could be saved without the blood of Christ.

Second, where in the world do you get off "excusing" infants and children? That's YOUR take on it. You believe God is good and just enough to excuse them...but not someone who never heard of Jesus?

Do you also include the mentally ill in that category--the one's who are perhaps born without a good mind, etc.?

I say that we go whole hog on this: Either God excuses those who for whatever reason didn't know Jesus...or He doesn't. And if He makes some exceptions, then why not others?

No one is without excuse in knowing right from wrong. BUT the scriptures do let us know that a person's conscience can "excuse" them, implying that they have lived as righteously as they know how.

That either means NOTHING...or it's worth something.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/4/12 6:25 pm**

Everyone is responsible for the degree of light they have (see Rom. 1, 2, and 3).

Babies and small children who do not yet know right from wrong are by definition innocent. God would also judge the mentally handicapped according to what they do know, just as He will judge all the heathen according to what they do know (Rom 2).

By positing a hypothetical 'good' person who somehow 'deserves' a second chance after all the chances he already had in this life, whether you realize it or not you are positing the possibility of that someone could be justified by their own works, which both testaments explicitly deny.

Jesus (that mean old narrow-minded exclusivist preacher) said that it was the pure in heart that would see God, and that NO ONE comes to the Father but by Him, and that "except ye believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." There simply is no other way of salvation. Positing the possibility of postmorten conversion is neither necessary in order to justify God's ways to man (for they alredy ARE just in every way! Nor is it necessary, since all who seek (persistently) shall find. Nor is is wise, since it is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment. Telling folks they can hope for a second chance after death, while trying to make a kindler, gentler judgment, in reality is incredibly cruel, like telling a dying cancer patient there'll always be tomorrow and a new treatment uis in the works, when in fact the one and only sure Remedy for sin and condemnation is already here.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/4/12 6:30 pm**

Of little children, Jesus said "Of such is the kingdom of God."

Of adults who were morally responsible, He said, "If ye then being evil..." And "You are of your father the devil."

4thgen

Bound By Beaulah Posts: 1003 **1/4/12 9:22 pm**

You didn't say what you believe. Do you think they will go to hell or not?

Simply put

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6385 **1/4/12 9:29 pm**

NIV

Romans 5:13

New International Version (NIV)

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

Romans 5:13

King James Version (KJV)

13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/4/12 10:22 pm**

Speaking of Gentiles who have not the advantage of the law of Moses:

Romans 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

What does Gods Word say?

Bound By Beaulah Posts: 1003 **1/4/12 10:40 pm**

My answer , which I base on the Word of God is yes they will go to hell, just like those who sit in churchs Sunday after Sunday hear the Word of God and that is all they do is hear the Word. I will give scripture that backs this up 100% after you answer your own question.

4golf and Wyatt...

Golf Cart Mafia Soldier Posts: 2295 **1/5/12 7:20 am**

A person who has never heard of Jesus will be judged according to the light he DOES have?

What is the difference between that and what I just said? That is, if he has acted good according to the light he DOES have, then does he still go to hell for having never heard of Jesus? If not, then WHEN does he hear of Jesus? It would almost certainly be after death.

There are no conclusive verses that condemns everyone to hell who has not heard of Jesus. The gospel is to be preached NOT simply to get people saved and keep them from hell, but to afford them a more abundant life. If we fail to tell a heathen tribe, we have not condemned them to hell...but we have failed to cause them to experience abundant life in this life.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/5/12 7:51 am**

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 “Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

Jn 8:24 “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/5/12 8:01 am**

No one is condemned on the basis of what they don't know. Sin against what one DOES know is what merits condemnation.

In all the passages of Scripture which speak of the Final Judgment, those who are condemned are condemned for their deeds/works. In no case do the scriptures ever list "didn't know Jesus" as a reason why one is condemned on that day.

Everyone will be judged according to their deeds/works, even Christians. The Christian will hopefully have had his unrighteous deeds forgiven, and will have been truly born again, thus having been granted entrance into the kingdom of heaven. The non-Christian who stands before God and is judged according to his works/deeds has no atonement to plead, has not been born again, and thus CANNOT enter the kingdom of heaven, according to the words of Jesus himself.

Who goes to hell!

Bound By Beaulah Posts: 1003 **1/5/12 8:14 am**

The question is will they go to hell if they have not heard the gospel. Like I said by the Word of God the answer is yes! I am amazed how man tries to make Gods Word hard. Jesus said in John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life. """"NO ONE"""" comes to the Father except through Me. Is there grace " On Rare" occassins? Yes! But Gods Word is either true or it is not! You either take it for plain and simple what it says or you do like alot of people today, you take and twist it around. Isaha 55:8 Gos ways are not our ways! His thoughts are not our thoughts. Jesus tells us to "Only Believe Him and Gods Word. Am I happy about them going to hell, No but I don't get to make that choice. Just like all the homosexuals that will go to hell because they have been told that damable lie they were born that way and God accepts them they way they are! I read very few posts on here much any more. The ungodliness in pulpits today is to see how close you can come to hell with out falling in! That is not Gods plan for a Man of God, a God called preacher of His gospel.This is why people are leaving the church and 85 % of youth after they leave home leave the church and never return. But the church has the latest programs! The latest and slickest Starrbuck preachers think out side the box! And the church is void of miricles! The church is void of "True" Disciples. Dr Vancer Havner said the reason we have so many pigmys in the pews is because we have so many pupits in the pulpits!

Acts-celerater Posts: 707 **1/5/12 10:02 am**

I would find another church if my pastor started telling me that you were not "dead" and "lost" outside of Jesus Christ.

Do you stand in front of people and say "some of you may be good enough to make it without Jesus"?

Some of you would probably stand in Egypt and say "surely God won't kill all the first born who don't have the blood of the lamb".

2 Timothy 4
1 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5 But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

I think sometimes we let our deceitful hearts lead us away from the straight and narrow, black and white truth. (Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?)

Salvation through Christ alone, by Faith alone are closed handed issues for any protestant church.

Ephesians
1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

I know many say how can a loving God send any to hell.

We never ask "How can a Holy, Righteous, and Just God let anyone into his presence?"

Scripture is clear on that. The Blood of Christ.

4golf...others...UTTERLY AMAZING!

Golf Cart Mafia Soldier Posts: 2295 **1/5/12 5:37 pm**

Over and over, you act as if anyone who disagrees with you is acting as if someone can get to heaven without JESUS.

BULL. MALARKEY.

No one is claiming that. You are erecting a straw man so you can act like you won an argument that does not exist.

I certainly have not claimed that anyone can be saved without Jesus. All I claim is that a person who never heard of Jesus, but lived well according to the light he did have, WILL be given the opportunity to accept Jesus.

NOTE: I did not say he could be saved without Jesus. Are we clear?

If you have a disagreement with me, it is WHETHER anyone will be given such an opportunity. It is NOT over whether Jesus is essential to salvation. HE IS.