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 "It's His faith, not our faith" |
JLarry |
Listening to a pastor on TV from Albany Ga. This is what he said.
Quote: "The just shall live by faith, and it's His faith not our faith". Stan Glass, Pastor, Life Christian Center International, Albany Ga.
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Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
1/24/16 12:31 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
The grammatical structure of Romans 1:17 places the emphasis on the one believing/trusting in God.
Why does God need faith? He is God! This sounds like the oft quoted woffie interpretation of the passage that reads, HAVE FAITH IN GOD. The woffie states that it means HAVE THE FAITH OF GOD, or the more frequently and erroneously used, HAVE THE GOD KIND OF FAITH. Incorrect exegesis!!!!!! The passage means nothing of the kind. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/24/16 2:16 pm
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| I agree with you OT |
brotherjames |
But the reason Hagin et al said that was to get people to have the kind of faith to believe in the God who calls things that be not as though they were. God is faith. He knowns His Word will come to pass. We need to believe it too. So, Hagin was merely using a device to encourage people to have greater faith in God and His Word. Consider Heb. 11:1. We use that as a definition of faith but does God "hope" His Word will come to pass? Of course not, so why should we? Shouldn't we just expect it to come to pass like God does? Why then is it the substance of things hoped for?
And more importantly, does any of this matter in the grand scheme of things? Maybe bad exegesis, maybe just trying to increase people's faith. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
1/24/16 5:56 pm
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| Re: I agree with you OT |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| brotherjames wrote: | | But the reason Hagin et al said that was to get people to have the kind of faith to believe in the God who calls things that be not as though they were....Hagin was merely using a device to encourage people to have greater faith in God and His Word. |
The massive problem with the above is "should one use faulty exegesis to build one's faith?" Does it take twisting and distorting scripture to build one's faith? Is correctly interpreted scripture not enough to develop and mature one's faith?
I must disagree with your assessment of Hagin. The reason Hagin et al use the term the "the God kind of faith" is because they believe it. It is built into their theological system (ie, wof). Biblical faith is absolute confidence in the ability of God. WOF faith is a belief in faith itself. Faith is an entity all its own. For many of them, and I've read Hagin's own writings on this, even unbelievers can access the power/benefit/activity of faith because it is a self-contained system. This IS NOT biblical faith. It is cultish and error. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/24/16 6:15 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | Biblical faith is absolute confidence in the ability of God. |
Amen, Ole Timer.
| Quote: | | Is correctly interpreted scripture not enough to develop and mature one's faith? |
Preach it, Ole Timer. If ya git a little leaven of bad exegesis, why ya might git tha whole entire lump of dough leavened with it. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/24/16 6:35 pm
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bradfreeman |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | The grammatical structure of Romans 1:17 places the emphasis on the one believing/trusting in God.
Why does God need faith? He is God! This sounds like the oft quoted woffie interpretation of the passage that reads, HAVE FAITH IN GOD. The woffie states that it means HAVE THE FAITH OF GOD, or the more frequently and erroneously used, HAVE THE GOD KIND OF FAITH. Incorrect exegesis!!!!!! The passage means nothing of the kind. |
Why does God need faith?
Because He lives in relationship with the Son and the Spirit. These 3 live have eternally lived and will always live in a relationship of faith, hope and love.
John 6:28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
What "works" was God doing? He was believing in the Son.
If you want to do the works God is doing, then believe.
He created man in His image to function the same way - by faith, hope and love. The man He created chose not to believe the Father and chose to believe a lie - that he could find life by his own knowledge of good and evil. The last Adam believed the Father unto death, even the death of the cross.
Why does God need faith?
Because He is love...and love believes all things, hopes all things.
1 Cor. 13:7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Read your Bible...Mr. Exegesis. 
You can't seriously believe that God didn't have faith in His Son.
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Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
1/24/16 10:06 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| bradfreeman wrote: |
Why does God need faith?
Because He lives in relationship with the Son and the Spirit. These 3 live have eternally lived and will always live in a relationship of faith, hope and love.
John 6:28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
What "works" was God doing? He was believing in the Son.
If you want to do the works God is doing, then believe.
He created man in His image to function the same way - by faith, hope and love. The man He created chose not to believe the Father and chose to believe a lie - that he could find life by his own knowledge of good and evil. The last Adam believed the Father unto death, even the death of the cross.
Why does God need faith?
Because He is love...and love believes all things, hopes all things.
1 Cor. 13:7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Read your Bible...Mr. Exegesis.
You can't seriously believe that God didn't have faith in His Son. |
Nay dear Brad, not one of the passages you cite has even a hint of reference to God having faith. God is sovereignty. God is omniscience. He knew sovereignly what His Son would do because He is omniscient. This has nothing to do with God having faith. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/24/16 11:20 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
Does God have faith in God? Does the Bible say that anywhere?
I see a lot of inferences about what the Bible "must" have meant (to back up preconceived notions of God) but not any verse that God has faith in himself.
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Last edited by Nature Boy Florida on 1/25/16 8:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
1/25/16 6:14 am
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bradfreeman |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: |
Why does God need faith?
Because He lives in relationship with the Son and the Spirit. These 3 live have eternally lived and will always live in a relationship of faith, hope and love.
John 6:28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
What "works" was God doing? He was believing in the Son.
If you want to do the works God is doing, then believe.
He created man in His image to function the same way - by faith, hope and love. The man He created chose not to believe the Father and chose to believe a lie - that he could find life by his own knowledge of good and evil. The last Adam believed the Father unto death, even the death of the cross.
Why does God need faith?
Because He is love...and love believes all things, hopes all things.
1 Cor. 13:7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Read your Bible...Mr. Exegesis.
You can't seriously believe that God didn't have faith in His Son. |
Nay dear Brad, not one of the passages you cite has even a hint of reference to God having faith. God is sovereignty. God is omniscience. He knew sovereignly what His Son would do because He is omniscient. This has nothing to do with God having faith. |
God is faithful - full of faith (pistos - believing).
If you argue that faithful doesn't mean that He is full of faith, but that He is one who can be believed in, then our faithfulness means that God can believe in us.
2 Tim. 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
Faithless is contrasted with faithful.
Faithless - without faith (apisteo)
1. to betray a trust, be unfaithful
2. to have no belief, disbelieve
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
1/25/16 7:00 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
So God has faith that he can do what he says - his faith is the substance of things HOPED for - the evidence of things not seen.
There are things God can not see?
Interesting theology.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
1/25/16 8:26 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| bradfreeman wrote: |
God is faithful - full of faith (pistos - believing).
If you argue that faithful doesn't mean that He is full of faith, but that He is one who can be believed in, then our faithfulness means that God can believe in us.
2 Tim. 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
Faithless is contrasted with faithful.
Faithless - without faith (apisteo)
1. to betray a trust, be unfaithful
2. to have no belief, disbelieve |
Even the principles of jurisprudence would eliminate this thesis, Brad. God's faithfulness speaks to his never changing essence. There can/will never be a time God is not faithful. This in no way implies that God exercises faith in the way he asks believers to exercise faith. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/25/16 10:20 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: | | God's "faithfulness" has to do with his reliability and trustworthiness - as linguists and lexical references will establish. |
Uh Oh, Tom is gittin real serious here. No Strong's Concordance fer Tom, he's done gone runnin with the big dogs.  |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/25/16 10:21 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Tom Sterbens wrote: | | God's "faithfulness" has to do with his reliability and trustworthiness - as linguists and lexical references will establish. |
Uh Oh, Tom is gittin real serious here. No Strong's Concordance fer Tom, he's done gone runnin with the big dogs. |
I only listen to them and you...my standards are high. |
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Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/25/16 10:37 am
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bradfreeman |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | So God has faith that he can do what he says - his faith is the substance of things HOPED for - the evidence of things not seen.
There are things God can not see?
Interesting theology. |
"Not seen" doesn't mean "not known".
"Not seen" simply means it hasn't come into existence yet.
God knows all and possesses the evidence of that which cannot yet be seen.
I find it odd that you would argue against God's character including any of the 3 eternal things - faith, hope and love.
I also find it odd that you could or would even want to argue that the love which defines God does not believe or hope.
Your protestations simply illustrate your desire to argue against word of faith theology even at the expense of Truth.
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
1/25/16 10:50 am
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bradfreeman |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: | | God's "faithfulness" has to do with his reliability and trustworthiness - as linguists and lexical references will establish. |
Unpack this statement.
| Quote: | | Theologically - God does not exercise "faith in Himself" for the same reason God cannot be tempted. |
Unpack this statement.
Are you saying God does not exercise faith in the Son or the Spirit?
Are you saying God does not exercise faith in us?
Are you saying God does not believe anything about anything?
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
1/25/16 11:03 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: | So God has faith that he can do what he says - his faith is the substance of things HOPED for - the evidence of things not seen.
There are things God can not see?
Interesting theology. |
"Not seen" doesn't mean "not known".
"Not seen" simply means it hasn't come into existence yet.
God knows all and possesses the evidence of that which cannot yet be seen.
I find it odd that you would argue against God's character including any of the 3 eternal things - faith, hope and love.
I also find it odd that you could or would even want to argue that the love which defines God does not believe or hope.
Your protestations simply illustrate your desire to argue against word of faith theology even at the expense of Truth. |
Not odd.
In fact it was very expected that you did not have any scriptures that stated your opinion...just your mumbo jumbo weaving around the facts.
I will mark it down that you don't have any verses that say God has faith in himself.
I had faith that you wouldn't find any.
While most people believe that faith will become sight when we see God ourselves - Brad believes God will apparently be the only one still needing faith since he apparently needs it now to believe in himself.
Perhaps Donald Trump believes the same thing.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
1/25/16 11:04 am
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Cojak |
This has cleared things up! 
I am glad I only thought I was a preacher, simplicity of the gospel sure does get complicated by what y'all call: Exegesis.
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http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
1/25/16 11:19 am
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diakoneo |
Does Father God need faith in Son or Spirit when they (three) are one?
If the three are all God and all have same mind, they do not need faith in eternity.
Christ operated in faith while He was on earth, though because He was not dwelling in eternity while here.
One day when we dwell in eternity, faith will no longer be necessary for us. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
1/25/16 12:57 pm
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Cojak |
| diakoneo wrote: | ...
One day when we dwell in eternity, faith will no longer be necessary for us. |
I am so 'unlearned' about the mysteries of God. Amazing one day, in THE ETERNITY that I, even I, will know some stuff (But then it might not be important, just common knowledge), if there is such a thing in the Presence of God. WOW, the thought! 
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
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http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
1/25/16 1:17 pm
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bradfreeman |
| diakoneo wrote: | Does Father God need faith in Son or Spirit when they (three) are one?
If the three are all God and all have same mind, they do not need faith in eternity.
Christ operated in faith while He was on earth, though because He was not dwelling in eternity while here.
One day when we dwell in eternity, faith will no longer be necessary for us. |
Faith, hope and love remain. They are eternal. As long as we live in relationship, we live in faith, hope and love. A lot of things will "cease" when that which is perfect has come, but not faith, hope and love.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
1/25/16 2:45 pm
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