 |
Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 Help Me Understand Please |
mytwocents |
There have been posts on the board about post election fears, children afraid,etc.
My struggle is understanding the basis of this fear.
I admit, I'm apparently a deplorable. I voted Cruz in the primary, Trump in the general election. So no, he is not my first choice, but he seemed the most endearing to evangelical concerns (abortion, religous freedoms, etc).
That being said, I don't get the trauma associated with his election.
To me, if a person is in the country legally then there is no basis for fear.
If a person is here illegally, then they have put themselves and their family in that position by breaking the law. Can't lay the blame for that on Trump, can you? |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 813
11/13/16 5:03 pm
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| Lawlessness |
famousflavius |
| It's the spirit of lawlessness getting stirred up. |
Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2447
11/13/16 6:31 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Help Me Understand Please |
Cojak |
| mytwocents wrote: | There have been posts on the board about post election fears, children afraid,etc.
My struggle is understanding the basis of this fear.
I admit, I'm apparently a deplorable. I voted Cruz in the primary, Trump in the general election. So no, he is not my first choice, but he seemed the most endearing to evangelical concerns (abortion, religous freedoms, etc).
That being said, I don't get the trauma associated with his election.
To me, if a person is in the country legally then there is no basis for fear.
If a person is here illegally, then they have put themselves and their family in that position by breaking the law. Can't lay the blame for that on Trump, can you? |
I need the same explanation. I just read a quote from a CEO who said her employees were scared to death, so nervous they can't work. WOW I just do not understand it.
I think most folk know the WALL will not be built and 20 million will not be deported. 
Just like Hillary's free college would not have come about!
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
11/13/16 7:52 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Carolyn Smith |
From what I'm seeing, there is a lot of bullying and taunting going on, where Latinos and others are being told "You're going to be deported..." Children going home in tears, terrified that it is going to affect them...a lot of nastiness happening. People on the more liberal side responding in anger to those who voted for Trump and telling their children they can't be friends with people who voted for Trump. This happened to a friend of mine. I'm reading about a lot of people being beat up and harrassed and treated poorly. It's sad.
Children aren't responsible for decisions their parents made, but it directly affects them. There are some really fine people here who are undocumented but made bad decisions many years ago.
And what I'm also reading is that Trump only wants to deport those who are illegal criminals.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
11/13/16 9:54 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Dean Steenburgh |
Out of all of the posters here I do not want to come across as crass & indifferent towards anybody here who is seeing, hearing, reading or witnessing these multiple accounts of trauma fueled by fear.
I live in a border state, a border state where people come across illegally every day pretty much. I live in a town where the hispanic population is nearly the majority & we have sections of town, several square blocks each where the known illegals live. We minister to them every single week 3 times a week.
They do have a fear ...they fear immigration, not Trump.
But they have feared immigration for years.
The first 5 years we started our street ministry to them they thought it was an immigration trick to round up the illegals, they're very suspicious & they don't trust anybody.
I am around them & their children daily & I have not heard of a single incident involving irregular harassment, intimidation or rumors of fear.
We still do a lot of business in Fresno & Bakersfield & the minority populations are pretty much the same with the exception of Fresno which has an excessive amount of hispanics & illegals compared to many of the Central California cities.
If there was even a chance that this thing was blowing up & the rumors were saying that immigration is cracking down & sweeping the neighborhoods, believe me it would be socially devastating here in the San Joaquin Valley.
The fact of the matter is people have gone about their normal lives & the Tuesday Flea Market last week was just as crowded as it usually is.
Many of the people here are keeping their paperwork in order & taking advantage of any loop hole in the immigration network.
Most of the Mexicans & Central Americans in our area are confident that Trump will build the wall.
Some like the idea & some hate it.
Part of my duties every day is coaching two grade school football teams.
We have the usual highs & lows & we have cheerleaders & spectators. My teams are about 80% Hispanic.
The only thing these kids are worried about is their team winning the championship & do they get a trophy.
At church this morning we had an awesome service with a mighty move of the Spirit touching people's lives.
We talked openly with several of our families about these issues.
Are they concerned? Yes. Are they scared? Probably. Are they being bullied & mistreated? Absolutely not.
One of my families owns a couple of businesses here in town & they live quite well & they are illegal. He said if Trump moves him out he'll have to start over but he's willing to do it. 3 of his 5 kids are with me daily & their biggest trauma is surviving the cafeteria food. By the way, they buy the hot lunches with their own money because they do not rely on government assistance to feed & clothe their family. I've warned Edgar for years this might happen but he's always too busy to file the proper applications.
Somebody said it might be different in other geographical areas but I don't see how fear could play the part. Mr. Trump said tonight on 60 minutes that he was going to deport or incarcerate all illegals who are guilty of crimes. He went on to say they will deal with the immigration of traditional illegals later after they secure the border.
There will most likely not be a single certified response to this, but I would love to see a bonafide, recent story of harassment, harm or assault that is directly related to the fear surrounded by the Trump immigration discussions.
If anybody can support this request I would love to read about it & determine the validity behind such trauma. We have friends who will help us look into these accounts who work with immigration as advocates who might be able to help by getting them the proper information to settle the fears.
At the end of the day if they are here illegal there might come a time when immigration officials will have to begin the process of interviewing the aliens to determine their status. Interviews don't lead to jail cells unless thy've committed a civil crime, but if their paperwork is undone they might have to return home & come in properly just like my family did at Ellis Island.
.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
11/13/16 11:05 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Dean |
Cojak |
|
|
| |
|
| |
Carolyn Smith |
Dean, have you not read the thread Tom Sterbens started about PTS? That sounds like a pretty reliable account to me from Jackie Johns.
The culture in CA is much different than the culture here in the South. Because you are not seeing it there does not mean it is not happening here.
Telling someone to go back to Mexico and come back through Ellis Island is pretty harsh, IMHO. That process can take years. Do you separate the families that have children who are Americans or do they take their children back to a way of life that is very far removed from what they have always known, where it is almost impossible to earn a decent wage?
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
11/14/16 7:11 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | but if their paperwork is undone they might have to return home & come in properly |
How would that be enforced? Would it involve detainment centers? Would it mean families are split up or are the children shipped back as well? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/14/16 8:17 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Nature Boy Florida |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | but if their paperwork is undone they might have to return home & come in properly |
How would that be enforced? Would it involve detainment centers? Would it mean families are split up or are the children shipped back as well? |
Hopefully U S is kind enough to ship whole families together- Crazy to leave kids by themselves.
Breaking the law costs everyone.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
11/14/16 10:40 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| So what is the solution? |
Ernie Long |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | Dean, have you not read the thread Tom Sterbens started about PTS? That sounds like a pretty reliable account to me from Jackie Johns.
The culture in CA is much different than the culture here in the South. Because you are not seeing it there does not mean it is not happening here.
Telling someone to go back to Mexico and come back through Ellis Island is pretty harsh, IMHO. That process can take years. Do you separate the families that have children who are Americans or do they take their children back to a way of life that is very far removed from what they have always known, where it is almost impossible to earn a decent wage? |
Let those who are here illegally stay without wanting to become legal citizens?
Maybe someone here who has experience with or are in contact with illegals, could give some clarification why those who are here illegally are not seeking to become American citizens. If they are all hard working, law abiding people then why continue to have to look over your shoulder? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1050
11/14/16 10:41 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
bonnie knox |
It's simple. They can go on working and providing for their family as long as they are under the radar, but if they want to become legal, they may end up being deported, unless there is some kind of amnesty provided.
| Ernie Long wrote: | | Carolyn Smith wrote: | Dean, have you not read the thread Tom Sterbens started about PTS? That sounds like a pretty reliable account to me from Jackie Johns.
The culture in CA is much different than the culture here in the South. Because you are not seeing it there does not mean it is not happening here.
Telling someone to go back to Mexico and come back through Ellis Island is pretty harsh, IMHO. That process can take years. Do you separate the families that have children who are Americans or do they take their children back to a way of life that is very far removed from what they have always known, where it is almost impossible to earn a decent wage? |
Let those who are here illegally stay without wanting to become legal citizens?
Maybe someone here who has experience with or are in contact with illegals, could give some clarification why those who are here illegally are not seeking to become American citizens. If they are all hard working, law abiding people then why continue to have to look over your shoulder? |
|
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/14/16 10:50 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
bonnie knox |
| That's not to say the solution will be simple now that we have so many illegals here. It's not. It's a big mess, if you ask me. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/14/16 10:51 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Help Me Understand Please |
Methocostal |
At first, I didn't understand it either. My son in law is half Hispanic and was worried.
However, it finally hit me that people, such as my son in law, have fears that are not rational, but I had those same fears before the election regarding Hillary as far as being a Christian. I had concerns she would appoint people to the Supreme Court that would "outlaw" religous freedom as "hate speech" and we could be imprisioned, eventually leading to euthanasia for "deranged" Christians. On one level, that was perhaps not "rational" and could be called paranoid, nevertheless, I had those. (Frankly I still think a Demo President in the future could do that, and as irrational as it may appear, it is a realistic possibility).
That enabled me to better understand why people may have fears that are far in excess of likely relality. In the case of minorities, it is further exascerbated by the constant media fear mongering. I now understand how the minorities are concerned. I do NOT think Trump will remove existing citizens, and actually have doubts he will remove illegals when all is said and done. (Though I personally feel Illegals should be sent home).
I had those feelings of concern based on my own knowledge of what could happen (i.e. Nazi Germany) and did not have that constantly reinforced by the media to fan those fears. Imagine those who are subjected to the media lies. It is entirely possible many of those people are truly worried.
Doesn't mean it is rational, but it is understandable.
| mytwocents wrote: | There have been posts on the board about post election fears, children afraid,etc.
My struggle is understanding the basis of this fear.
I admit, I'm apparently a deplorable. I voted Cruz in the primary, Trump in the general election. So no, he is not my first choice, but he seemed the most endearing to evangelical concerns (abortion, religous freedoms, etc).
That being said, I don't get the trauma associated with his election.
To me, if a person is in the country legally then there is no basis for fear.
If a person is here illegally, then they have put themselves and their family in that position by breaking the law. Can't lay the blame for that on Trump, can you? |
|
Friendly Face
Posts: 496
11/14/16 12:11 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Methocostal |
Unfortunately, the parents put their children in that condition when they came here illegally. I certainly don't think the parents should be sent back and the children stay here (if the children were born in the US). Unfortunately, it creates a mess as the children are US citizens since they were born here. (Personally, I think if a parent is here illegally, then the children shouldn't be allowed automatic citizenship since they were born here. HOWEVER, I don't think we can change the rules midstream and now say the Children are not citizens. (This is a similar argument I make that we cannot retroactively disregard the electoral college and put Hillary as President, the rules should not be changed midstream).
That said, it is a problem since the Children are citizens and the parents are not. On one hand, the parents should take them back to their home country voluntarily to not separate the family. But, I do see some parents would choose to have their children remain because of the opportunities in the US. They would do that out of love for their children. Indeed, those questions would require the wisdom of Solomon on how to legally and morally solve the problem and I don't have an answer. To allow children of illegals to be citizens does nothing but encourage more people to come here illegally to get their children to have citizenship. At the LEAST, the law should be changed, for future situations that an illegal can not grant citizenship to their children by having them in the US. (For that matter, I think the same should apply to those here on a temporary VISA, and it may be already, I don't know).
It is a very difficult solution. Perhaps the compromise is to allow those born here to stay with their illegal parents, but change the law for future illegals.
I do NOT think that illegals should receive carte blanche citizenship.
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | Dean, have you not read the thread Tom Sterbens started about PTS? That sounds like a pretty reliable account to me from Jackie Johns.
The culture in CA is much different than the culture here in the South. Because you are not seeing it there does not mean it is not happening here.
Telling someone to go back to Mexico and come back through Ellis Island is pretty harsh, IMHO. That process can take years. Do you separate the families that have children who are Americans or do they take their children back to a way of life that is very far removed from what they have always known, where it is almost impossible to earn a decent wage? |
|
Friendly Face
Posts: 496
11/14/16 12:24 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Dean Steenburgh |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | Dean, have you not read the thread Tom Sterbens started about PTS? That sounds like a pretty reliable account to me from Jackie Johns.
The culture in CA is much different than the culture here in the South. Because you are not seeing it there does not mean it is not happening here.
Telling someone to go back to Mexico and come back through Ellis Island is pretty harsh, IMHO. That process can take years. Do you separate the families that have children who are Americans or do they take their children back to a way of life that is very far removed from what they have always known, where it is almost impossible to earn a decent wage? |
In my post I mentioned how that I have heard about people claiming the differences of concern based on geography. Who knows what these folks have been told to scare them.
Some people (some good people) will have to go back to Mexico & come through the right way. Yes it may take years to move back permanently but we do offer work visas & travel visas.
Also, just for a small correction, Ellis Island has been closed for processing immigrants since the 1950's. My post said that my family came through there to move to America.
Most of the families we know of who have been sent back usually leave their kids here when they are deported. The kids are called 'anchor babies' & it's not their fault the parents broke the law. We have border control for a reason, to keep illegals out which include both terrorist & people looking for work.
.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
11/14/16 1:19 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Dean Steenburgh |
My daughter Amy is a Lee grad and this is what she posted to her cousin the other day who was feeling sorry for the college kids after the upset win by President Elect Donald Trump:
| Quote: | In 2008 when Obama was first elected I had just gone back to college in Tennessee. I remember being a part of the college republican team and canvassing our entire campus/city and county. Along side us were the college democrats and everything was very civil aside from the usual candidate banter.
When Obama won we as republican's were devastated of course and disappointed, but NONE of us went around protesting, crying, and making ridiculous scenes. I was still expected to go to my 7am math class and go about my class schedules because we were in college...aka... "adults in training". We weren't offered free pizza, coffee, donuts, or puppies... we were told by Obama on national television "sometimes you win and sometimes you don't.."
We're adult (18yrs or older) students... we like to make adult decisions therefore we had to react like an adult should when dealt a bad hand...with respect. We congratulated the college democrats and then both groups gathered together and we prayed over our nation and most of all the man who had just been elected to be the president of OUR United States.
The college students now need to grab a tissue, and go to class. It sucks your team lost but now it's time to move on. |
No PTS comfort - this whole Notion of coddling and comforting college kids after an election is quite disturbing to me. It reminds me of when my youngest son's baseball team got a participation trophy for ending the season 8-12 in last place.
.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
11/14/16 1:42 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
skinnybishop |
Is it possible....barely possible that some of these claims of abuse, at the hands of jubilant Trump supporters, are exaggerated?
_________________
Eddie Wiggins |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1055
11/14/16 2:19 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: So what is the solution? |
Carolyn Smith |
| Ernie Long wrote: | | Carolyn Smith wrote: | Dean, have you not read the thread Tom Sterbens started about PTS? That sounds like a pretty reliable account to me from Jackie Johns.
The culture in CA is much different than the culture here in the South. Because you are not seeing it there does not mean it is not happening here.
Telling someone to go back to Mexico and come back through Ellis Island is pretty harsh, IMHO. That process can take years. Do you separate the families that have children who are Americans or do they take their children back to a way of life that is very far removed from what they have always known, where it is almost impossible to earn a decent wage? |
Let those who are here illegally stay without wanting to become legal citizens?
Maybe someone here who has experience with or are in contact with illegals, could give some clarification why those who are here illegally are not seeking to become American citizens. If they are all hard working, law abiding people then why continue to have to look over your shoulder? |
From what I understand, it's almost impossible to become legal without going back to Mexico. Imagine living here more than 10 years, having a wife and children who are US citizens, working hard and being a productive, upstanding person...but you have to take everyone back to Mexico to become legal? Or be separated from your family for who knows how long. It's a very difficult process.
I also know of a situation where some people sought legal counsel about becoming legal, and the lawyer reported them because they stopped giving him money. The lawyer was supposedly helping them but never did anything except ask for more money. It's a Catch 22.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
11/14/16 11:17 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Carolyn Smith |
|
|
| |
|
| |
Cojak |
Once the number of illegals reched the multi millions, allowed by both parties. I realized that in the end, there must be and will be a path to citizenship. I DO NOT believe in open AMNESTY. But a path, decided by folks smarter than I (I HOPE) 8-10 years of paying taxes, 2-4 years military service etc.
There must be a way, I have NEVER thought Trump would do an across the board deportation.
Truth is the Obama administration has deported more than most folk realize.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
11/15/16 12:25 am
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
