 |
Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 There is a lot to "get over" |
Jamie Noel |
| Nick Park wrote: | The concept of Associate Churches would allow congregations to unite with the Church of God without having to surrender their title deeds and to raise up future leaders themselves without worrying that someone's buddy will be imposed on them as pastor instead. In all other respects they would fulfill the obligations of CoG churches - including paying the ToT.
As for those who complain that this would produce a two-tier category of churches, I rather see this as a stepping stone to allowing all CoG churches to own their own title deeds and to operate a better system of pastoral succession. We could point to the Associate Churches and say, "See, we allowed these guys to do it and the sky didn't collapse on us. So now let's implement similar improvements for everybody."
That's how change happens - one step at a time.
Regrettably, at the last GA, we demonstrated that our current system of doing business makes even little steps of change very difficult. I left Orlando profoundly disappointed over this issue. If we can't even take a no-brainer step to change for the better like this without appointing more studies and committees then I wonder whether we really have the capacity to be proactive and adapt for the future. |
There is so much for the COG to get over. I was disappointed that the term "alley dogs" were used for indie churches. I grew up COG and now pastor an indie church....I was floored that one of our patriarchs called me by that name. I must say, I took offense at that. I was moving close to bringing our church back...it is those types of attitudes that make me question this move.
_________________
Stay Positive! |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1138
9/18/11 2:38 pm
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| Re: There is a lot to "get over" |
mytimewillcome |
| Jamie Noel wrote: |
There is so much for the COG to get over. |
Do you have that copied to paste it in every post at some point? |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3658
9/18/11 2:54 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: There is a lot to "get over" |
Jamie Noel |
| mytimewillcome wrote: | | Jamie Noel wrote: |
There is so much for the COG to get over. |
Do you have that copied to paste it in every post at some point? |
ZING!!!! Once again he strikes with his forked tongue!
_________________
Stay Positive! |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1138
9/19/11 8:15 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Travis |
zjudah1 |
Thanks for your post...I've been wondering why not? These guys bring TOT to the table--and as long as they retain or establish our missional mind set, doctrine, & practice, the Kingdom will benefit. Certainly, the Kingdom will benefit without them attached to our Denomination, but hey, it helps.
(Personally, I dont care if they deed over their land/building)
My (Two part) question is how will it play out with the current loans backed by the General Office? Are they still underwriting all new church plant loans and new building loans? Somewhere down the road IF we're going to own our own property, at sometime this benefit will cease. Correct? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 202
9/19/11 12:20 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Travis |
Travis Johnson |
| zjudah1 wrote: | | My (Two part) question is how will it play out with the current loans backed by the General Office? Are they still underwriting all new church plant loans and new building loans? Somewhere down the road IF we're going to own our own property, at sometime this benefit will cease. Correct? |
That's easy to remedy. If you use COG funding for loan underwriting, then you turn over sovereignty to the denomination until such a time as the denomination is no longer on the hook for the loan. Then, you return to some sort of sovereign position.
Concerning the viability of loans/equity positions, we just have to make sure that the equity positions of loans we are underwriting are healthy so we aren't in negative equity positions where the pastor and a herd of people can vacate a building and leave our fellowship on the hook for their decisions.
At the end of the day, we're in a bad spot when the walls we build keep people in. And, while that's an oversimplification of things, no one likes being treated like a prisoner. We really need to be in a place where the denomination is offering a legitimate value-add to congregations...where it is obvious that our cooperative is more valuable than our independence. Our cooperative ought to be earned, not coerced....for the sake of denominational mission health. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
9/19/11 1:23 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Serious question, though.... |
Jamie Noel |
Before I ask this particular question, let me assure all of you that I do not ask to incite any kind of heated debate nor snide remarks. My question is a serious one and it will have to be answered before this church makes the move to join the COG....
What benefit does the money we send to the COG give us as a member? If we join, our people will need to see the importance of sending in thousands of dollars in every month. They will surely ask, as some already have, how this benefits us? We can see the benefit to the organization...what about the local church?
Before any of you answer, I ask for serious remarks. I need to prepare how I can pitch this to my church. The other "catch 22" that I am in is that I cannot use terms such as, "covering or accountability." In our previous stint with the COG, they blew that when no one would go to bat for us....
Who can give a serious answer as to what benefit our church would receive for joining?
Thanks for your help.
_________________
Stay Positive! |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1138
9/20/11 8:03 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
sheepdogandy |
crickets chirping........
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
9/20/11 2:45 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Travis Johnson |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | | crickets chirping........ |
For some people, there is no substantial value. For others, there is. I'm blessed being a part of the COG. There have been times where it has been trying. Family is like that though.
For us (our fellowship) to better appeal to a broader cross section of people who don't know the value of our "family," there needs to be more value-add...a larger Mission Co-op here and abroad.
That's the future of the COG...even though we've taken an unfortunate step backwards by defunding home mission and under-funding global missions with the way the Tithe Cut went down, the future should be to guarantee a locked percentage of our TOT funds going to home and global missions (without the ridiculous administrative overhead and multiple administrative entities overseeing the same responsibilities).
We can get there. And, we should. If we do, people would be beating down the doors to be a part of our crew. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
9/20/11 3:26 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Glad to hear that, Travis... |
Jamie Noel |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | | sheepdogandy wrote: | | crickets chirping........ |
For some people, there is no substantial value. For others, there is. I'm blessed being a part of the COG. There have been times where it has been trying. Family is like that though.
For us (our fellowship) to better appeal to a broader cross section of people who don't know the value of our "family," there needs to be more value-add...a larger Mission Co-op here and abroad.
That's the future of the COG...even though we've taken an unfortunate step backwards by defunding home mission and under-funding global missions with the way the Tithe Cut went down, the future should be to guarantee a locked percentage of our TOT funds going to home and global missions (without the ridiculous administrative overhead and multiple administrative entities overseeing the same responsibilities).
We can get there. And, we should. If we do, people would be beating down the doors to be a part of our crew. |
For the first time in its existence, our local church has been heavily involved with local and foreign missions. Three years ago, we began a mission in the Philippines. Since then, it has grown well beyond its years with over 250 children now involved.
My fear is the following: if we join the COG and adhere to the TOT structure, this would literally eliminate all of our missions funding. Quite frankly, our church could not cut another 14% from its income to send to the COG. This has become the biggest obstacle to rejoining the COG for me. No one knows the heart of their church like their pastor. I see some benefit in being a part (mainly for the kids/youth). However, this church will, in no way, forfeit its funding to our missions to pay a denomination. With that in mind, I don't see us ever coming in.
However, if the COG could guarantee that this mission would be the recipient of funds from, not only our TOT but the denom as a whole, then that could be a selling point to the church. Plus, we could pitch that funding would go to various other missions projects as well. What would be the possibility of that?
_________________
Stay Positive! |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1138
9/21/11 7:23 am
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
