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bradfreeman |
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roughridercog |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | What would be a legitimate reason not to allow it? |
Started a thread so people could list objections.
http://www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=67990
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25305
2/15/12 2:38 pm
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| Re: Exactly what model... |
poppy |
| roughridercog wrote: | is a Church of God car?
When I was in Cleveland, I saw a few expensive imports on HQ parking lot. I thought, "Those must be cars of foreign missionaries for a dedicated minister of the gospel would only buy American."
So which model is the Church of God model? |
(Somewhat in jest) The COG car has to be an Oldsmobile. A good model from a bygone era. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 316
2/15/12 2:39 pm
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| Re: Exactly what model... |
roughridercog |
| poppy wrote: | | roughridercog wrote: | is a Church of God car?
When I was in Cleveland, I saw a few expensive imports on HQ parking lot. I thought, "Those must be cars of foreign missionaries for a dedicated minister of the gospel would only buy American."
So which model is the Church of God model? |
(Somewhat in jest) The COG car has to be an Oldsmobile. A good model from a bygone era. |
You rascal, you made me spit out my gum on that one.
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25305
2/15/12 2:50 pm
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Poimen |
I realize working the details out may be more intensive, and can understand the need for some guidelines or expectations concerning the same, but ... using the bible as the premise, this answer is easy. Yes!
If we really believe in the unity of believers, that is that we are one body in Christ, then it shouldn't matter if COG preachers pastor non COG churches. It should be permitted, if not welcomed and encouraged!
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Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
2/15/12 4:45 pm
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bradfreeman |
I have yet to here a valid reason for not allowing it. Anyone?
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
2/16/12 10:03 am
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| That was my point... |
roughridercog |
for making this thread.
I have heard the tired old lame argument, "You don't need to pastor a church outside the denominations when there are churches that need a pastor within the denomination."
There are states with hundreds of ministers on the state report, but not pastoring.
Why aren't they finding a place to minister? That is between them and God. But why penalize a man who has an opportunity to pastor a church outside of the denomination that has beliefs similar to ours? Will it somehow hinder the Gospel if that church doesn't pay percentages?
I went on record saying this on the board during last GA.
"We need to ordain men for ministry and then let them minister...wherever the opportunity presents itself."
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25305
2/16/12 10:15 am
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| Re: That was my point... |
bradfreeman |
| roughridercog wrote: | for making this thread.
I have heard the tired old lame argument, "You don't need to pastor a church outside the denominations when there are churches that need a pastor within the denomination."
There are states with hundreds of ministers on the state report, but not pastoring.
Why aren't they finding a place to minister? That is between them and God. But why penalize a man who has an opportunity to pastor a church outside of the denomination that has beliefs similar to ours? Will it somehow hinder the Gospel if that church doesn't pay percentages?
I went on record saying this on the board during last GA.
"We need to ordain men for ministry and then let them minister...wherever the opportunity presents itself." |
Yes.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
2/16/12 2:14 pm
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| Do you really think... |
roughridercog |
there's any chance of this happening anytime soon? 
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25305
2/17/12 11:45 am
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| ay |
Wesley Duncan |
| Actually if you are a credential minister in the COG, you asked and applied for credentials in the COG. If you pastor in the COG you report monthly to State and General Hdqtrs and you tithe to the church where your membership is. If you are not pastoring and have credentials you must be a member of the COG and support that church with your tithes, and with your attendance. If a minister is retired and wishes to keep his license in the COG he must be a member of the COG, support the church as anyone else does. If he choses to give up his COG license he can go anywere he wishes or no where if he wishes. After all, we did apply for Credentials in the COG and we were given the Credentials knowing the rules. The COG is not a Licensing Mill for ministers who do not wish to minister in the COG. There are places that license ministers for a fee. The COG can be held responsible to those who hold its credentials. May not like it, but that's the way it is in our state. |
Friendly Face
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2/17/12 8:08 pm
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| Re: ay |
bradfreeman |
| Wesley Duncan wrote: | | Actually if you are a credential minister in the COG, you asked and applied for credentials in the COG. If you pastor in the COG you report monthly to State and General Hdqtrs and you tithe to the church where your membership is. If you are not pastoring and have credentials you must be a member of the COG and support that church with your tithes, and with your attendance. If a minister is retired and wishes to keep his license in the COG he must be a member of the COG, support the church as anyone else does. If he choses to give up his COG license he can go anywere he wishes or no where if he wishes. After all, we did apply for Credentials in the COG and we were given the Credentials knowing the rules. The COG is not a Licensing Mill for ministers who do not wish to minister in the COG. There are places that license ministers for a fee. The COG can be held responsible to those who hold its credentials. May not like it, but that's the way it is in our state. |
No, I don't like it.  This rule is solely about cash-nothing more, nothing less. As a matter of fact, I'd say you could probably attend anywhere you want, as long as you send your cash to a COG church(I know at least one minister who did this for years and probably still does with no complaints from HQ).
So these are the legitimate reasons for keeping the rule that restricts the pastoral ministry of credentialed pastors to ONLY COG churches:
"The COG is not a Licensing Mill for ministers who do not wish to minister in the COG." No one is saying these ministers do not wish to minister in the COG. What about situations where they've been unable to get a post in the COG? I'm sure you are not saying that can't minister anywhere outside the COG--mission fields, street ministry, etc. What about ministers living in an area where there is no life-giving COG church? Should they be forced to attend the "family church" where there are 18 people coming every Sunday to hear uncle Joe sing the same song week after week, aunt Sally give the same testimony and brother Bud preach the same sermon--with no youth pastor for their kids?
"After all, we did apply for Credentials in the COG and we were given the Credentials knowing the rules." Are you saying that just because that was the rule when we joined up we shouldn't seek to change it? Or consider if it might be wrong?
"There are places that license ministers for a fee." Are you saying that, because we had other options for ordination, we shouldn't revisit or reconsider the validity of the rule?
This sounds like one of those "if you don't like it, lump it (or leave it)" posts. Truth is, any minister in the body of Christ should be allowed to minister anywhere he can and wishes to--freely ye have received, freely give. Any rule that discourages that, in the name of cash (tithing), needs to be tossed out.
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
2/18/12 9:03 am
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SouthGeorgiaBoy |
Why would anyone want to hold credentials with a movement and not pastor in that organization? I am not oppose to a CoG minister pastoring outside the movement. I just wonder what the purpose would be?
Could it be that they want the benefits of the movement without the responsibilities? Brad suggested that this is solely about cash, nothing more. Would you want a member of your local church attending another church, supporting it with their tithe and offerings and then expect your church to take care of them?
Before I get crawled on, my church ministers to many outside of our local church. In fact, we have assisted several families with their utility bills and groceries who attend other churches.
I just think that if you are going to be part of a church, be a part of it!! |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1037
2/18/12 11:28 am
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Change Agent |
SouthGeorgiaBoy wrote:
"Why would anyone want to hold credentials with a movement and not pastor in that organization? I am not oppose to a CoG minister pastoring outside the movement. I just wonder what the purpose would be?"
You don't seem to know the current situation in the COG. In my area and probably yours there are 3 times more COG credentialed ministers than there are COG churches to pastor. There are independent churches in the area looking for pastors. That's the reason and purpose. |
Acts Enthusiast
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2/18/12 1:59 pm
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roughridercog |
| Change Agent wrote: | SouthGeorgiaBoy wrote:
"Why would anyone want to hold credentials with a movement and not pastor in that organization? I am not oppose to a CoG minister pastoring outside the movement. I just wonder what the purpose would be?"
You don't seem to know the current situation in the COG. In my area and probably yours there are 3 times more COG credentialed ministers than there are COG churches to pastor. There are independent churches in the area looking for pastors. That's the reason and purpose. |
Great point
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25305
2/18/12 4:25 pm
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Travis Johnson |
| Is the COG diminished if our credentialed ministers serve outside of our gates? I can't imagine we would be. I can only imagine our influence and reach would be broadened. That's a good thing in my mind. |
Acts-dicted
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2/18/12 4:32 pm
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bradfreeman |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | | Is the COG diminished if our credentialed ministers serve outside of our gates? |
I don't think so either. But is the diminution of the COG properly our primary concern? If the institution has elevated its own well being above the people or organism (the body of Christ) it supposedly exists to serve, then we have even more serious problems.
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
2/19/12 7:28 am
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| Is the real reason that the independent church... |
roughridercog |
will be using a Church of God minister and not paying percentages?
_________________
Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25305
2/19/12 1:48 pm
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| Re: Exactly what model... |
FellowSoldier |
| roughridercog wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | roughridercog wrote: | is a Church of God car?
When I was in Cleveland, I saw a few expensive imports on HQ parking lot. I thought, "Those must be cars of foreign missionaries for a dedicated minister of the gospel would only buy American."
So which model is the Church of God model? |
I think its a BUICK!!! |
A sanctified man of God wants nothing to do with any car company that would accept a bail out. That shoots GM in the foot.
So Ford must be the car of choice for the Church of God. |
I feel I must give some correction here. The only authorized COG cars are Hundais, subaroos, and mitzubishis closely followed by the interpretation... Sorry couldn't resist.
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Your Fellow Soldier |
Friendly Face
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2/21/12 5:05 pm
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| Re: Exactly what model... |
bradfreeman |
| FellowSoldier wrote: | | roughridercog wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: | | roughridercog wrote: | is a Church of God car?
When I was in Cleveland, I saw a few expensive imports on HQ parking lot. I thought, "Those must be cars of foreign missionaries for a dedicated minister of the gospel would only buy American."
So which model is the Church of God model? |
I think its a BUICK!!! |
A sanctified man of God wants nothing to do with any car company that would accept a bail out. That shoots GM in the foot.
So Ford must be the car of choice for the Church of God. |
I feel I must give some correction here. The only authorized COG cars are Hundais, subaroos, and mitzubishis closely followed by the interpretation... Sorry couldn't resist. |
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
2/21/12 6:19 pm
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| Would this be conditional! |
deskjet7 |
| What if a Church of God minister does this in your town and a group of your people leave your church to go to that independent church? In the minds of those who left you, they do have a Church of God pastor who has been sanctioned by the State and International Offices, but yet they are independent. Are you for it then? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1815
2/24/12 10:04 am
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