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 Some thoughts about honorary degrees and education in general... |
Aaron Scott |
One of the teachers of a GED class pointed out something I had overlooked. The teacher said that it is more difficult to obtain a GED than a high school diploma. Why? Because you can obtain a high school diploma with a D average, but you have to show a greater level of mastery to obtain a GED (I would imagine somewhere around a mid-to-high C to pass).
We usually think the person who went to school for 12 years is the best educated, but I think this shows a flaw in our thinking. Similarly, we tend to think (or, rather, OTCP tends to think) that a person who obtains their Ph.D by attending graduate school is the better educated than the one who is given an honorary degree.
In many cases, I would tend to agree. At the same time, there are so many exceptions to this line of thought that we cannot possibly hold it as anything close to "a truth" or a rule. If a person could just write a mini-dissertation and obtain a Ph.D, I imagine that there are many people who would score higher on such a paper than those who took the full course load, etc.
Again, there is certainly value in obtaining a doctorate the formal way. But in many circumstances, and honorary doctorate is RECOGNIZING that a person has the highest level of mastery in an area, and is awarding the honorary degree as an acknowledgement that this capability may not have been obtained formally, but is utterly equivalent to that level of thinking.
As I have mentioned before, no one on earth (except OTCP, I think) would hold that Queen Elizabeth's political understanding was no at a level that EXCEEDS that of the highest Ph.D in the world. Yet he would dismiss an honorary degree as virtually nothing because 1) QEII didn't sit in classes, and 2) didn't pay for the degree; etc.
I say that while we should indeed resist degree mills, we should not look at honorary degrees (or, for that matter, credits earned by a form of CLEPing, and in Governor's Western University, etc.) as lesser than the other. Just as a Ph.D does not imply brilliance as much as perseverance, neither does an honorary degree imply a lack of full command of the subject matter.
If a GED is more difficult to attain than a diploma, it is entirely likely that the hard-won knowledge that is recognized by an honorary degree was more difficult to attain than that attained by the more formal process.
Just some thoughts.... |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
7/14/17 1:31 pm
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| Re: Some thoughts about honorary degrees and education in general... |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | One of the teachers of a GED class pointed out something I had overlooked. The teacher said that it is more difficult to obtain a GED than a high school diploma. Why? Because you can obtain a high school diploma with a D average, but you have to show a greater level of mastery to obtain a GED (I would imagine somewhere around a mid-to-high C to pass).
We usually think the person who went to school for 12 years is the best educated, but I think this shows a flaw in our thinking. Similarly, we tend to think (or, rather, OTCP tends to think) that a person who obtains their Ph.D by attending graduate school is the better educated than the one who is given an honorary degree.
In many cases, I would tend to agree. At the same time, there are so many exceptions to this line of thought that we cannot possibly hold it as anything close to "a truth" or a rule. If a person could just write a mini-dissertation and obtain a Ph.D, I imagine that there are many people who would score higher on such a paper than those who took the full course load, etc.
Again, there is certainly value in obtaining a doctorate the formal way. But in many circumstances, and honorary doctorate is RECOGNIZING that a person has the highest level of mastery in an area, and is awarding the honorary degree as an acknowledgement that this capability may not have been obtained formally, but is utterly equivalent to that level of thinking.
As I have mentioned before, no one on earth (except OTCP, I think) would hold that Queen Elizabeth's political understanding was no at a level that EXCEEDS that of the highest Ph.D in the world. Yet he would dismiss an honorary degree as virtually nothing because 1) QEII didn't sit in classes, and 2) didn't pay for the degree; etc.
I say that while we should indeed resist degree mills, we should not look at honorary degrees (or, for that matter, credits earned by a form of CLEPing, and in Governor's Western University, etc.) as lesser than the other. Just as a Ph.D does not imply brilliance as much as perseverance, neither does an honorary degree imply a lack of full command of the subject matter.
If a GED is more difficult to attain than a diploma, it is entirely likely that the hard-won knowledge that is recognized by an honorary degree was more difficult to attain than that attained by the more formal process.
Just some thoughts.... |
All of us got thoughts, Aaron, but it don't make em right/wrong. Empirical data supporting them thoughts is key to logical discussion. When preachers of the Gospel commence usin the letters GED after their name, we will then have fodder for the discussion. Me an you both know that if a preacher signed his name, had it on his business card/church sign/church stationary/church website/written books/etc., John Q. Doe, GED, folk would laugh, make fun, tease, talk behind closed doors, etc. Same thing is true with a preacher who uses the title "Dr." when all they got is a honery docterate. Its a joke, it ain't real, it is a sad practice on the part of fellers who do it.
Now, we aint talkin bout folk who git a honery based on equivalent life experience/self-study. Like your QEII example. The vast majority of preachers with honery docterates has got em--not because of what they have learned or a body of material they have mastered--but because of who they know or the position they in. Consider our own International Executive Committee over the past 50 years. How many men, elected to this esteemed group, entered said positions with no docterate or docteral studies. Many had no earned masters degree. A few had never earned even a bachelors degree. But during their tenure, Lee University (an when they were still operatin, them COG Bible schools in Fresno, Minot & Charlotte) awarded many of these men honery docterates. Upon receipt, these men were immediately referenced as "Dr. John Boy Doe." Some of these men had been staunchly anti-education-----------until they got them a honery an folk commenced callin em "Dr." Thence, the "value" of the honery is not the mastery of a field of study, but the ability to work one's way up the political ladder, or be good "camp meeting preacher." One thing I admire in Loran Livingston is that, yes, he was awarded a honery docterate, but I aint never seen him use the title "Dr" even once. It aint on his website.
Moral a the story: Nothin wrong with a honery, just don't use it as the sole criterion to be called "Dr." or ya gonna be horselaughed at as much as the feller who would use John Doe, GED. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
7/15/17 2:57 pm
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Cojak |
I have many thoughts on this subject. I never graduated High School. I have obtained HS & College level GEDs. I do not attend my HS or college reunions. but I do attend my wife's HS reunions. There are college professors, Doctors, Dentists. I have built for most of them. I know their financial reports and holdings.. I smile knowing a little kid who quit school and even works for them, has been more successful.
I remember reading the words of that wonderful man, solid thorough bred, Ted Kennedy, about Ted Turner. He may win the ....... sail boat race, but he will never have CLASS!
I admire anyone who has PROVEN they are head and shoulders above their peers and carry a Doctorate. But some carry a doctorate (they have earned?) and have not shown any initiative to improve life, even theirs.
A kid worked for me once who worked his way through and graduated from Princeton. He told me of men of wealth who paid him to do their work and they graduated beside him with honors.
Sorta makes this drop out, that has a REAL GED, smile.
We all could turn this to the religious world with the wonderful 'little folk' who keep the 'church world' going, by living daily for Christ.
Never mistake my comments as against education, I wish I had a REAL education. If I had a REAL education my proof reader would not waste so much red ink. 
If I ever settle down in my 80's I might just get me a real degree. 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
7/16/17 11:33 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
Right on Aaron.
An honorary doctorate from an accredited institution IS worth something.
Unless OTCP wants to review the current and past Exec Comm. members and let us know where they stand - he really should remain silent on the subject.
Why should we have a mouse, too timid to call folks out - just a nattering nabob of negativism on the sideline - drive the discussion?
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
7/17/17 8:18 am
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sheepdogandy |
I was thrown out of high school.
Hard to believe isn't it?
Passed the GED and have my certificate hanging on my office wall.
Along with my certificate of graduation from The International School of Christ, as taught by B. H. Clendennen.
Which I cherish more than anyone's Phd from any institute of higher learning or seminary.
Also, I have had the privilege of sitting under the ministry of Bro Dollas Messer, who I will put up against any seminary professor any day.
I respect the effort involved in obtaining a doctrate.
But the proof is in the pudding. 
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
7/17/17 1:54 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Regarding academia, so many preachers are like the Niinevites. Remember how God described em? Not knowin their left hand from their right one. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
7/18/17 6:33 am
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| An Honorary Doctorate from Any School is Useless |
FG Minister |
An honorary doctorate from an accredited school says "we acknowledge your contributions to society." You've achieved something. They are given by Ivy League schools to actors, civic-minded people, authors, etc. Nice, but useless. An honorary doctorate does not say you are educated or have the ability to link two sentences together. It just says "we acknowledge your contribution to... whatever." An honorary doctorate from a non-accredited school says the same thing, but people care even less.
Our friend Aaron says "But in many circumstances, an honorary doctorate is RECOGNIZING that a person has the highest level of mastery in an area, and is awarding the honorary degree as an acknowledgement that this capability may not have been obtained formally, but is utterly equivalent to that level of thinking." Hogwash. An honorary doctorate says nothing about "mastery." It is simply a kind gesture acknowledging someone. Being a full-time pastor, it took me seven years to sit in those classes and eventually write my dissertation. No amount of life experience equates to sitting in classes, reading volumes, doing research, and then writing papers. On the other hand, I have real life experience that could never be taught in a classroom. The two are simply not the same. Acknowledgment for achievement is different than academic study.
Diploma Mills are a different animal. I remember back in the 90's when TL Lowery would buy a $600 doctorate from International Bible Seminary in Florida and give it to guys who hosted his meetings. They felt really proud of themselves and he was trying to be nice to them.
Here's a good rule to live by - if you didn't earn it by attending classes and writing a dissertation from an accredited school, do NOT place Dr. in front of your name. That goes for all the boys in Cleveland. It's fraudulent otherwise. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 875
7/18/17 1:30 pm
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| Let OTCP Respond within the text of FG Minister's post. |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| FG Minister wrote: | An honorary doctorate from an accredited school says "we acknowledge your contributions to society." You've achieved something. They are given by Ivy League schools to actors, civic-minded people, authors, etc. Nice, but useless. An honorary doctorate does not say you are educated or have the ability to link two sentences together. It just says "we acknowledge your contribution to... whatever." An honorary doctorate from a non-accredited school says the same thing, but people care even less. Extremely well stated![\b]
Our friend Aaron says "But in many circumstances, an honorary doctorate is RECOGNIZING that a person has the highest level of mastery in an area, and is awarding the honorary degree as an acknowledgement that this capability may not have been obtained formally, but is utterly equivalent to that level of thinking." Hogwash. An honorary doctorate says nothing about "mastery." It is simply a kind gesture acknowledging someone. Being a full-time pastor, it took me seven years to sit in those classes and eventually write my dissertation. No amount of life experience equates to sitting in classes, reading volumes, doing research, and then writing papers. On the other hand, I have real life experience that could never be taught in a classroom. The two are simply not the same. [b]Acknowledgment for achievement is different than academic study. Again, stated from experience
Diploma Mills are a different animal. I remember back in the 90's when TL Lowery would buy a $600 doctorate from International Bible Seminary in Florida and give it to guys who hosted his meetings. They felt really proud of themselves and he was trying to be nice to them. The mill cited is International Seminary in Plymouth, FL, www.internationalseminary.com, and is the source of TL Lowery's own PhD., as well as other COG ministers such as Darrell Waller, Franklin Hunt, et al The practice described by FG Minister is absolutely beyond belief.
Here's a good rule to live by - if you didn't earn it by attending classes and writing a dissertation from an accredited school, do NOT place Dr. in front of your name. That goes for all the boys in Cleveland. It's fraudulent otherwise. |
Couldn't a said it better maself!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
7/20/17 12:08 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Honorary doctorates and degree mills aren't the same.
An earned doctorate diploma tells the world that you have the knowledge to make a difference in the world in your field. It may or may not actually happen.
An honorary doctorate shows an institution recognizes you already made a difference in the world in your field - and your accomplishments can be looked upon as an example of what one SHOULD accomplish once they have a doctorate.
I would have no problem using the title Dr. in such circumstances....but often the one who has actually accomplished something without a title sees no need to start using one at that late stage of life.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
7/20/17 6:45 am
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Cojak |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Honorary doctorates and degree mills aren't the same.
An earned doctorate diploma tells the world that you have the knowledge to make a difference in the world in your field. It may or may not actually happen.
An honorary doctorate shows an institution recognizes you already made a difference in the world in your field - and your accomplishments can be looked upon as an example of what one SHOULD accomplish once they have a doctorate.
I would have no problem using the title Dr. in such circumstances....but often the one who has actually accomplished something without a title sees no need to start using one at that late stage of life. |
I like that NBF 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
7/20/17 8:34 am
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