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Nature Boy Florida |
Anyone that ever thought Bentley was anything other than a charlatan and wolf in sheep's clothing should never be allowed to speak about anointing, prophecy, or spiritual discernment. They obviously know nothing about it.
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Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
3/21/18 6:55 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | Anyone that ever thought Bentley was anything other than a charlatan and wolf in sheep's clothing should never be allowed to speak about anointing, prophecy, or spiritual discernment. They obviously know nothing about it. |
The first time I saw TB on GodTube, they was a immediate nonbearing of spirits, something is not right here. Several weeks later some from near Pikeville traveled to a one night crusade, an invited the ole timer to go. I did not go. When they got back, an these was COG folk, I ast em how it was. They couldn't stop ravin over the might move a God an how God was usin this tattooed prophet.
Two weeks later Todd left his wife an three children for his mistress. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
3/21/18 8:11 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
Perhaps this is where the "teaching" originated:
From the online Strong's concordance at Biblestudytools.net:
Strong's Number: 907 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
baptivzw from a derivative of (911)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Baptizo 1:529,92
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
bap-tid'-zo
Definition
to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
to overwhelm
Not to be confused with 911, bapto. The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped'(bapto) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizo) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change. When used in the New Testament, this word more often refers to our union and identification with Christ than to our water baptism. e.g. Mark 16:16. 'He that believes and is baptised shall be saved'. Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to the pickle! Bible Study Magazine, James Montgomery Boice, May 1989.
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
3/22/18 6:01 am
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| Interesting |
JLarry |
Now that I have seen what Carolyn posted, I think I prefer to be pickled in Him rather than just dipped.
I only read part of the original post and the last post in this thread. So I probably missed some good post.
Not interested in what the "watchmen" have to say.
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No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
3/22/18 7:42 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Who are the watchmen, Larry? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
3/22/18 7:51 am
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| Re: Interesting |
Dave Dorsey |
| JLarry wrote: | | Now that I have seen what Carolyn posted, I think I prefer to be pickled in Him rather than just dipped. |
That sounds very spiritual, but it's not an accurate picture of regeneration.
Pickling is a process of preservation, not recreation. You soak a food in vinegar to help it keep from spoiling. It does change the taste and texture of a food as well, but that is a mere transition. It is not a recreation. A pickle is a different form of a cucumber. It is not a new vegetable.
In contrast, our identity with Christ in death, burial, and resurrection is the result of His Spirit working in us to create a new being. Our sinful nature is not preserved from spoiling -- it does not simply have its taste and texture changed. It is recreated completely. We become a new man in Christ.
This is what A.W. Tozer was talking about when he talked about the importance of thinking rightly about God. In the preface to The Knowledge of the Holy, he writes, "The Church has surrendered her once lofty concept of God and has substituted for it one so low, so ignoble, as to be utterly unworthy of thinking, worshiping men." He goes on to say that she has not done so deliberately, but "little by little and without her knowledge".
This is an example of the "little by little". It is not heretical. But it is a low view of regeneration. It is a low view of Christ's work. It represents a failure to understand the true majesty and loftiness of God's work of regeneration in us.
It is this sort of thing -- stacked on top of hundreds of others like it -- that Tozer characterizes collectively as our loss of knowledge about the holy, and the cause of the despairing state of the church today. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
3/22/18 8:16 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | Perhaps this is where the "teaching" originated:
From the online Strong's concordance at Biblestudytools.net:
Strong's Number: 907 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
baptivzw from a derivative of (911)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Baptizo 1:529,92
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
bap-tid'-zo
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Herein lies a problem. Using Strong's Concordance as a tool for interpretation. SC is an entry level tool, much like the old first grade books "Run, Jane, Run." Nothin wrong with it when its used for what it was designed for, to give a brief definition of a word. It was never intended to be used as a tool for in depth linguistic study and hermeneutics. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
3/22/18 11:00 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
I have heard of Banov a little before, but really, I can’t say that I’m familiar with his teaching, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I am not interested enough to pay to listen to his pickled sermon.
That said, I have heard many over the years talk and sing about being “saturated†with the presence of the Holy Spirit, etc. My guess is that is the kind of thing Banov was getting at. I would be very surprised if he meant anything like holding someone under the water until they were drowned (ha!) or that conversion is a slow process whereby one’s sinful nature gets pickled. I could be mistaken, of course, but I am pretty sure that in this case he was just trying to emphasize the believer’s need of being immersed and saturated in the Spirit of God. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
3/22/18 1:11 pm
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| Re: Were we "pickled" into death in Christ Jesus? (or, what passes for teaching at Bethel Church) |
GreatONE |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | Georgian Banov preached at Bethel last week and said that because the Greek word "baptizo" was first used (c. 250 BC) in a cookbook to mean pickling, that this is the correct understanding of what it means to be baptized -- not washed, but pickled in the death of Christ Jesus.
Does Romans 6 teach that all of us who were pickled into Christ Jesus were pickled into his death?
Is it correct to teach God's people that a word only has one meaning, and that the first use of the word in history (and Banov is correct that the first known literary use of "baptizo" is in a cookbook and does refer to pickling) defines the meaning of that word 250 years later?
Is it correct to teach God's people that baptism is not washing, but pickling? Banov gives an example of his grandmother pickling a cucumber and says that a cucumber is changed inside and out by this process. Does water baptism change us inside and out? Should John the Baptist be called "John the Pickler", as Banov says in this message?
You can listen to Banov's complete sermon here (but you have to pay for it, like you do to access almost all of what Bethel Church merchandises and pedals as the word of God) - http://www.bethel.tv/watch/5195/sunday-night/2018/03/18
You can also hear just the relevant excerpt, with an excellent breakdown of the hermeneutical flaw, in the March 19 episode of the "Fighting for the Faith" podcast, beginning at 51:52.
I've been baptized in water, but there wasn't any salt, garlic, or vinegar involved. Could you Bethel fans help me understand if I was baptized incorrectly? |
Banvo's statement makes me think that his brain has been pickled and no longer functions. What possible purpose would anyone say anything a goofy as this, especially from a pulpit. If's he's trying to sound educated, he needs to get his head out of the pickle jar and into the Bible. |
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Posts: 26
3/22/18 4:06 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | I have heard of Banov a little before, but really, I can’t say that I’m familiar with his teaching, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I am not interested enough to pay to listen to his pickled sermon.
That said, I have heard many over the years talk and sing about being “saturated†with the presence of the Holy Spirit, etc. My guess is that is the kind of thing Banov was getting at. I would be very surprised if he meant anything like holding someone under the water until they were drowned (ha!) or that conversion is a slow process whereby one’s sinful nature gets pickled. I could be mistaken, of course, but I am pretty sure that in this case he was just trying to emphasize the believer’s need of being immersed and saturated in the Spirit of God. |
I agree with your assessment & I too have not paid to listen to the message.
Some of my family were in attendance & they said it was a wonderful service & that nobody took the analogy as anything more than a different view of the interpretation of Baptizo. In fact when I mentioned it was being discussed on Acts they were amused that it would be debate material.
.
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Posts: 4682
3/22/18 6:06 pm
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