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Mark Ledbetter |
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Last edited by Mark Ledbetter on 5/4/18 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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4/28/18 7:26 pm
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| Mark, a couple of thoughts... |
Aaron Scott |
I think you would find that the word "circumcision" could be used in place of "sabbath" (in terms of it being prior to the Law, codified by the Law, practiced by Jesus, etc.). And yet we know clearly that it is not required for Gentile believers. Granted, however, that the Sabbath is not so clearly exempted.
It is MY OPINION that one of the reasons the church moved to Sunday vs. the Sabbath was because, in time, the divide between Jews and Christians became more and more intense. With the rise of Judaizers, it seemed that the early church grew more and more distrustful of Jews and/or those that thought Christians should observe certain Jewish traditions/requirements.
The Catholic Church may have cemented the change, but it doesn't seem to me that it would have arisen organically from the notion that "Jesus rose on that day." That is, it is hard for me to think that Christians said that they didn't have to observe the Sabbath just because Jesus was rose on the first day of the week. It seems that there must surely have been other drivers to the change. And it (again) my opinion that it all may have been a reaction to Judaism trying to control Christianity...or a reaction to feeling pushed out of synagogues by the increasingly bitter divide between Jews and Christians...or a reaction to being thought of as just another branch of Judaism (e.g., Pharisees, Saducees, and Christians).
It just seems that there had to be more behind the change than simply the day that Jesus arose. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
4/28/18 8:19 pm
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| Re: Mark, a couple of thoughts... |
Mark Ledbetter |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | | I think you would find that the word "circumcision" could be used in place of "sabbath" (in terms of it being prior to the Law, codified by the Law, practiced by Jesus, etc.). |
While circumcision, like tithing, pre-dated the Law of Moses, "circumcision" is a non-issue. The Jerusalem Council addressed this issue. Further, Paul later equated the symbolism of entering the Abrahamic covenant with baptism:
| Quote: | | "and in Him were you circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of worth boy of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been burned with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead..." Colossians 2:11-12. |
The Apostle also writing to the Corinthians: "Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk. And so I direct in all the churches. Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is keeping the commandments of God." (1:7:17-19)
And, indeed, "there had to be more behind the change than simply the day that Jesus arose." But it ain't pretty.
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4/28/18 8:54 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
How do we know which day is the true Seventh day that God rested?
Perhaps our Wednesday is the actual Seventh Day. How does anyone know it isn't?
Who has been the one keeping count since the first "seventh" day of rest?
Did God assign Adam a calendar task? How do we know he kept it accurately? Who did he pass that task to next? And then who?
And if we don't know - would the concept of taking a "seventh" day of rest suffice as keeping the "Sabbath", whether Saturday, Sunday or Wednesday?
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
5/1/18 7:43 am
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| Nature Boy... |
Mark Ledbetter |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | How do we know which day is the true Seventh day that God rested?
Perhaps our Wednesday is the actual Seventh Day. How does anyone know it isn't?
Who has been the one keeping count since the first "seventh" day of rest?
Did God assign Adam a calendar task? How do we know he kept it accurately? Who did he pass that task to next? And then who?
And if we don't know - would the concept of taking a "seventh" day of rest suffice as keeping the "Sabbath", whether Saturday, Sunday or Wednesday? |
So, why do you offer this as an argument?
Do you offer it because you are opposed to observing the Sabbath?
Or, do you offer it to support observing on Sunday?
Or, do you offer it to support we should treat every day with the same esteem and in anticipation of entering into a "rest"?
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5/1/18 8:00 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
It wasn't an argument.
It was a question.
You indicate you believe Christians should observe the Sabbath. Sounds fine to me.
How do we know which day actually is the Sabbath?
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5/1/18 8:21 am
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| That's a good question Nature Boy |
Isa 58:12 |
On the question what day do we keep as the Sabbath, look up what the Jews been doing throughout the centuries as G-d gave them the Eternal Covenant of the Sabbath, they have never lost it & just look at your calendar, what is the seventh day?
I know they're changing calendars now to make Sunday the 7th day, but that's not correct. Throughout history the Sabbath day has never changed, now calendars and days have been changed, but the Sabbath day has always been Saturday 😇
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5/1/18 9:01 am
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| Re: That's a good question Nature Boy |
Aaron Scott |
| Isa 58:12 wrote: | On the question what day do we keep as the Sabbath, look up what the Jews been doing throughout the centuries as G-d gave them the Eternal Covenant of the Sabbath, they have never lost it & just look at your calendar, what is the seventh day?
I know they're changing calendars now to make Sunday the 7th day, but that's not correct. Throughout history the Sabbath day has never changed, now calendars and days have been changed, but the Sabbath day has always been Saturday 😇 |
Nah, the Jews have pretty much messed up every single thing the Lord commanded them, AS WELL AS rejecting God's ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.
And you, you keep misspelling God's Name, and you will almost certainly go to you-know-where. Besides, didn't the Bible say something about TAKING AWAY FROM? Yep, hell it is.... |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
5/1/18 11:04 am
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| Re: That's a good question Nature Boy |
Nature Boy Florida |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | | Isa 58:12 wrote: | On the question what day do we keep as the Sabbath, look up what the Jews been doing throughout the centuries as G-d gave them the Eternal Covenant of the Sabbath, they have never lost it & just look at your calendar, what is the seventh day?
I know they're changing calendars now to make Sunday the 7th day, but that's not correct. Throughout history the Sabbath day has never changed, now calendars and days have been changed, but the Sabbath day has always been Saturday 😇 |
Nah, the Jews have pretty much messed up every single thing the Lord commanded them, AS WELL AS rejecting God's ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.
And you, you keep misspelling God's Name, and you will almost certainly go to you-know-where. Besides, didn't the Bible say something about TAKING AWAY FROM? Yep, hell it is.... |
You beat me to it Aaron.
Jesus had to keep telling these guys everything they got wrong about God, His Law, etc... but were expected to believe they got this one right?
Not buying it.
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5/1/18 11:25 am
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| Nature Boy: What day is it and Spelling God's Name |
Mark Ledbetter |
What day is it?
I have to act on what I know and not what I don't know. So, in this case I would have to adopt the tradition of the Western world and go with the flow and assume Sunday is the 1st day of the week and Saturday is the 7th day of the week.
Things get complicated, however, when we consider the Jewish days begin at sunset the day before and end sunset the next day. Therefore, the Sabbath using the Roman Calendar begins at sunset Friday and ends sunset Saturday, but you knew that.
Interesting to note, however, is according to Church Historian K. Latouorette, not only did the Church have some observing the Jewish Sabbath up to the 5th Century, the Church also adopted the Jewish week and referred to the 1st day as the 1st day, not Sunday, and the other days as well rather than their planet names, and the Sabbath. Some congregations in the East (Asia Minor and under John's influence) continued to observe the Resurrection during the Jewish Passover - even to the point of expulsion by one Bishop in Africa.
As for the Spelling of God's name: Technically, God isn't His name but we do capitalize God to express deity as opposed to the pagan gods.
And you probably know this: It has long been the custom of the Jews not to write God but G-d, or Lord as L-ord, out of reference for His name (yet these are titles and not His name.)
This custom is found in Matthew's Gospel in another manner (Matthew is the most Jewish of the Gospels, with John a close second): Rather than refer to God's kingdom as the Kingdom of God they referred to it as the Kingdom of Heaven.
The rational is not to become overly familiar with God's name and risk abusing or misusing it.
There is a rampant abuse of God's name, not only in profane expressions, but casual reference or substitutes, one that I loath - OMG.
Final note: You suggest my post suggest we observe the Sabbath by my post. That was not my intention with this post. I presented Scriptural basis for the Sabbath observation and anyone can draw their own conclusions, research the issue, and adopt or adapt to their own persuasion.
I just wanted to present what the Scriptures say and the context of the Sabbath in the Gospels and the Acts.
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God-Honoring
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5/1/18 4:51 pm
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| To Mark Ledbetter |
Tom Sterbens |
Deleted...
I didn't see your other two "Sabbath" posts until after I posted my question (now deleted).
It seems pretty clear you're all in on the sabbath thing...
Question answered. |
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5/1/18 10:09 pm
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