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 Does 3 John 2 Guarantee Prosperity for All? |
Old Time Country Preacher |
The ole timer is defining prosperity the way the prosperity folk defines it: wealth, abundance, overflow, an all.
Does 3 John 2--correctly interpreted--guarantee this for all Christian folk? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
11/3/13 3:03 pm
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| OTCP... |
tryingtofitin |
| you are obsessed with this, airn't ye... |
Friendly Face
Posts: 174
11/3/13 3:05 pm
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bradfreeman |
It indicates John's desire. These seem more definite on God's desire:
For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you through His poverty might become rich. (2 Corinthians 8:9 NASB)
And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed; as it is written, "He scattered abroad, he gave to the poor, His righteousness endures forever." Now He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your seed for sowing and increase the harvest of your righteousness; you will be enriched in everything for all liberality, which through us is producing thanksgiving to God. (2 Corinthians 9:8-11 NASB)
For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be [i]heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. [/i](Romans 4:13 NASB)
in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Galatians 3:14 NASB)
And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise. (Galatians 3:29 NASB)
Peter began to say to Him, "Behold, we have left everything and followed You." Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel's sake, but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life. (Mark 10:28-30 NASB)
These seem so simple and straightforward that it would take a theologian to mess 'em up. Jesus also promised these blessings would be accompanied by persecutions - probably from those who despise the goodness of God.
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? (Romans 2:4 KJV)
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
11/3/13 3:47 pm
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| Re: OTCP... |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| tryingtofitin wrote: | | you are obsessed with this, airn't ye... |
Nope, its just that so many Penneycostal folk bleeves so much of it. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
11/3/13 4:56 pm
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| Re: OTCP... |
Ernie Long |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | tryingtofitin wrote: | | you are obsessed with this, airn't ye... |
Nope, its just that so many Penneycostal folk bleeves so much of it. |
Maybe your hanging with the wrong Penneycostal folk?
And how many are so many?
Could you give us some names of COG pastors or churches that believe like you're accusing? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1050
11/3/13 5:26 pm
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| Re: OTCP... |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Ernie Long wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | tryingtofitin wrote: | | you are obsessed with this, airn't ye... |
Nope, its just that so many Penneycostal folk bleeves so much of it. |
Maybe your hanging with the wrong Penneycostal folk?
And how many are so many?
Could you give us some names of COG pastors or churches that believe like you're accusing? |
The ole timer don't hang with em, Ernie.
Look at them whats risin right here on acts to defend these faulty teachins. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
11/3/13 5:47 pm
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| Re: Does 3 John 2 Guarantee Prosperity for All? |
Cojak |
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Ventureforth |
Looks like, it looks like it depends on which translation you use.
 |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 651
11/3/13 8:31 pm
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| "Guarantee"? No. |
Aaron Scott |
I do think that it establishes evidence that God DOES want us to be in health and prosper. Does it GUARANTEE that? Of course not.
At the same time, it seems to indicate that a person who is prospering SPIRITUALLY is not out of line to desire (and perhaps expect) to prosper in other ways, too. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
11/4/13 1:46 pm
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bradfreeman |
Christ's work of redemption on the cross provides for the blessing of Abraham to come on all believers. There is a process of renewing our minds that enables us to realize in our lives, bodies, circumstances (on earth) what is provided for and already true in our spirits (in heaven).
We are already blessed with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ. Eph. 1:3
We are seated together with Him in heaven. Eph. 1:4
The blessing of Abraham is ours by faith - righteousness, abundant provision, protection. Gal. 3:14
When we got Christ, we freely got "all things"! Rom. 8:32
While 3 John 2 is not a guarantee, Jesus is. Christ is the guarantee of a better covenant for all. Though not all realize or access the righteousness, blessing and provision provided in it on earth as in heaven.
Heb. 7:22 so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
11/4/13 5:21 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
It was nothing more than an opening greeting to a letter. In essence he was saying, "I hope this letter finds you prospering both materially and spiritually. I wish this for you above everything else."
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Last edited by Resident Skeptic on 11/4/13 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
11/4/13 6:34 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| No one so fer has done answered with more depth an exegetical an contextual insight than Resident Skeptic. Well done, son, well done! This here is why right interpretin is so importan an all. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
11/4/13 6:40 pm
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| What is so many? |
caseyleejones |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | tryingtofitin wrote: | | you are obsessed with this, airn't ye... |
Nope, its just that so many Penneycostal folk bleeves so much of it. |
Thousands? Millions? I know a good many of church folk.....a few hundred. To say I know what they believe would narrow down less than 20-30....if that.
Maybe you have done a poll. I would like to know how you acquired there is so many. |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11798
11/4/13 7:28 pm
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| Re: What is so many? |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| caseyleejones wrote: | Thousands? Millions? I know a good many of church folk.....a few hundred. To say I know what they believe would narrow down less than 20-30....if that.
Maybe you have done a poll. I would like to know how you acquired there is so many. |
Ahhhh, ma ole pal casey. Son, you still...oh, never mind.
Hey, far as how many, here is exactly what the ole timer said, "its just that so many Penneycostal folk bleeves so much of it."
Now, as you can plainly see an all, the old timer didn't give no percentages, or say most penneycostals, or half of em, just at "so many." Now, they is more right here on Acts at believe such stuff than ought to. Ever where the ole timer has ever been, I done dealt with folk what believe it. It cant just be in the churches I been. Roughs dealt with it. Rabs dealt with it. Rafs dealt with it. That alone is toooooooooooooooooooo many. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
11/4/13 7:50 pm
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| Re: What is so many? |
Ernie Long |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Ever where the ole timer has ever been, I done dealt with folk what believe it. It cant just be in the churches I been. Roughs dealt with it. Rabs dealt with it. Rafs dealt with it. That alone is toooooooooooooooooooo many. |
Well, I guess that settles it.  |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1050
11/4/13 8:24 pm
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| Re: What is so many? |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Ernie Long wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Ever where the ole timer has ever been, I done dealt with folk what believe it. It cant just be in the churches I been. Roughs dealt with it. Rabs dealt with it. Rafs dealt with it. That alone is toooooooooooooooooooo many. |
Well, I guess that settles it. |
Not really, ernie, half the mega churches in the US is wof in orientation an all. Son, this stuff is eatin up the broader penney/charismatic world. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
11/4/13 10:35 pm
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Ventureforth |
Well, first of all, the context of 3 John 1:2 is John praying for his friend, Gaius.
Couple of questions:
Can we use his prayer as one example to help us pray for others? Is this one thing we are to draw from this passage?
I would think so.
If we can pray this way, are we to expect the prayer to be answered?
I like 1 John 5:14 when considering these matters and framing those verses that say we can have what we ask.
| Quote: | | This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him. |
God wants us to ask. He wants us to have faith in Him.
But we should not try to dictate the way He answers the prayer. However, He may do it immediately. In fact, I don't think it hurts to ask that way. I would hate to miss out on an immediate answer to prayer because I wasn't willing to trust Him.
| Quote: | | And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith. Matthew 13:58 |
But in any case, we should trust in His nature. He wants the best for us. But sometimes that means the answers can't be quick.
In some cases, it may be His will not to answer the prayer.
(btw, by "answers" I mean God's response to a prayer that solves problem, heals, supplies a need, etc.)
If we ask according to His will, I think God does guarantee the answer. It's just questions of when - and of course, what is His will.
So all that to say, WOFers take things to the extreme and, if what has been reported on this board is accurate, misinterpret the bible in some areas of belief, in my opinion. But we shouldn't let them cause us to go to the other extreme and stop asking and having faith for big things from God. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 651
11/5/13 12:43 am
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| Re: What is so many? |
diakoneo |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | caseyleejones wrote: | Thousands? Millions? I know a good many of church folk.....a few hundred. To say I know what they believe would narrow down less than 20-30....if that.
Maybe you have done a poll. I would like to know how you acquired there is so many. |
Ahhhh, ma ole pal casey. Son, you still...oh, never mind.
Hey, far as how many, here is exactly what the ole timer said, "its just that so many Penneycostal folk bleeves so much of it."
Now, as you can plainly see an all, the old timer didn't give no percentages, or say most penneycostals, or half of em, just at "so many." Now, they is more right here on Acts at believe such stuff than ought to. Ever where the ole timer has ever been, I done dealt with folk what believe it. It cant just be in the churches I been. Roughs dealt with it. Rabs dealt with it. Rafs dealt with it. That alone is toooooooooooooooooooo many. |
I have quite a few in my own family...a couple are COG preachers. They don't buy it "hook, line and sinker" but they do buy their books and support their ministry. Copeland and Myres in particular. It makes me uncomfortable, because they are close family.
One has recently seen the light lately and has quit supporting them and listening to them. He now "can't stand them". That ought to tell you something. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
11/5/13 10:43 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Thank ya, diakoneo. The ole timer don't have to give no formal statistics, all a feller has to do is open his eyes an talk to folk in general (penneycostal charismatic folk), an it aint long till so much a that stuff comes out.
Hey, the ole timers own mother (not momma, ats ma wife, but ma own biological mother), was a real big meyer fan, even had joyces study Bible an all. After some enlightenment, this ole fellers mother aint a fan no more. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
11/5/13 11:14 am
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Da Sheik |
| No it doesn't guarantee material prosperity. To view every hope expressed in scripture as a promise or guarantee is disingenuous at best. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1865
11/5/13 11:55 am
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