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 Rapture question |
Link |
I have been studying a little about the coming of the Lord and eschatology recently. I have a couple of questions about the coming of the Lord and the return of Christ.
II Thessalonians 2:1
2 Now, brethren, concerning the COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ and our GATHERING together to Him, we ask you,
(NKJV, with emphasis in caps mine)
Matthew 24
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man COMING on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will GATHER together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (NKJV, with emphasis in caps mine)
Is the coming of the Lord in these two passages the same event?
Is the gathering in these two passages the same event?
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Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
10/7/18 7:39 pm
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| Re: Rapture question |
Resident Skeptic |
| Link wrote: | I have been studying a little about the coming of the Lord and eschatology recently. I have a couple of questions about the coming of the Lord and the return of Christ.
II Thessalonians 2:1
2 Now, brethren, concerning the COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ and our GATHERING together to Him, we ask you,
(NKJV, with emphasis in caps mine)
Matthew 24
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man COMING on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will GATHER together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (NKJV, with emphasis in caps mine)
Is the coming of the Lord in these two passages the same event?
Is the gathering in these two passages the same event? |
You are correct. Next question.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
10/7/18 8:47 pm
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Cojak |
I am going to wait and see. I will accept what ever comes in my Christian life. I am trying to be READY for any interpretation. or scheduled times and events.
I actually have a hope RS is right,but what is YOUR thoughts Link? 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
10/7/18 10:04 pm
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Link |
Sorry for the 'gotcha' here, in case anyone is pretrib. But notice the Matthew 24 verse is set _after_ the tribulation.
Matthew 24
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(NKJV)
Matthew 24 is also the passage that describes it as 'great tribulation.'
_________________
Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
10/8/18 10:36 am
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Resident Skeptic |
| Link wrote: | Sorry for the 'gotcha' here, in case anyone is pretrib. But notice the Matthew 24 verse is set _after_ the tribulation.
Matthew 24
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(NKJV)
Matthew 24 is also the passage that describes it as 'great tribulation.' |
In case I was not clear, i agree with Link.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
10/8/18 12:01 pm
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| Shalom 😇 |
Isa 58:12 |
Keep reading Link, this was on my mind for the last 3 days, & was also the Torah lesson that I taught was on. & I come on here & look what I see 😀. It's not about which "trib" it's gonna happen, it's about what we need to *look like* when it happens, whatever it looks like 😉
Matt 24:37; *as the days of Noah* "were", so shall *also* the coming the Son of man *be*.... What did those days look like? Gen 6:11; now the Earth had become corrupt before G-d, and the Earth had become filled with violence. Some translate it as robbery, idolatry, violence, lawlessness, etc. And G-d saw the earth & behold it was corrupted, for *all* flesh had corrupted *it's way* upon the earth....13; the end of all flesh has come before Me....
When talking about the days of Noah, people always focus on how bad it was, this was "lawlessness" 2Thess 2.... People never talk about what Noah looked like, or how he was living, or his message at that time... As the days of Noah..... They dont connect Matt 24:38-39 with it either.
Not all people or bad these were just people going about their lives, eating & drinking, marrying, & giving in marriage, and they did not know until the flood came and took them all away..... These are people not paying attention, because they've lost their way & are swallowed up in their lives, themselves.
But Noah was a *Righteous* man *Perfect* in "his" generations and he walked with G-d. What is Righteousness? its right standing with G-d, what is that look like? Keeping His Torah, Dt 6:25; these Commandments I'm giving you this day are *for your* Righteousness......
2Peter 2:5; ....Noah was a *preacher* "of" Righteousness, he was a preacher of the Torah, G-d's Instructions, G-ds Way that man corrupted. There is a "way" that seems right unto man but in the end is death Prov 14:12 😮
Noah was Perfect, how? Ps 19:7-11; the Law of the L-rd is *"Perfect"*, converting the soul, Testimony of the L-rd is sure making the wise simple...11; moreover by them is the servant warned, and in keeping them there is great reward....😊
& We see in Noah, that he was a Righteous man, Perfect, & he *"Walked"* with G-d, how did he do that? By the *faith* in G-d in doing what He Commanded him 🙂. & Think about this for a second, as G-ds Judgment came down on the earth in the form of water, Noah & his household were lifted up *above* the Judgment Gen 7:17 😎
How did Noah find Grace? He kept G-ds Commandments 😋
🤔 So our days have to look like Noah's days before Messiah comes, what do you think we should look like in *"our"* generation? What do you look like in your generation? What do you think our message should be in us, in our generation? How should we be living & what should we be obedient to? If it's going to be just like Noah's days
& A side note, G-d didn't say Noah and *"your family"* have I seen Righteous, He said I've seen Righteousness in you, singular and his family made it. Another one Lot was saved because of the Righteousness of Abraham. And number 3, Acts 16:31; believe on the L-rd Y'shua HaMashiach & you shall be saved, *and your house* 😇
Lol, you not going to hear that message in churches LOL, or Tim lahaye and his Left Behind series, or any other Rapture movies. You'll never see the importance of walking Righteousness with G-d by keeping His Torah in faith of Y'shua before He comes
Something to think about, who missed me 😀
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
10/15/18 10:30 pm
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| If He waits long enough |
famousflavius |
If Jesus waits long enough to come back, He might be able to get a lighter load. If there are only 12 believers left on Earth to get raptured it will be like Noah and his family on the ark.
Its only 980 years to the year 3000 and by that time I can imagine Christians will be almost extinct. I really hope He does not wait that long.
Some people say the generation from 1967 or 1947 would not dissapear before the rapture. Either one is winding down to the end now. It is my personal opinion that it is the 1967 generation and I look for His return every day. |
Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2447
11/4/18 8:45 am
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| Re: Shalom 😇 |
Mat |
| Isa 58:12 wrote: | Keep reading Link, this was on my mind for the last 3 days, & was also the Torah lesson that I taught was on. & I come on here & look what I see 😀. It's not about which "trib" it's gonna happen, it's about what we need to *look like* when it happens, whatever it looks like 😉
Matt 24:37; *as the days of Noah* "were", so shall *also* the coming the Son of man *be*.... What did those days look like? Gen 6:11; now the Earth had become corrupt before G-d, and the Earth had become filled with violence. Some translate it as robbery, idolatry, violence, lawlessness, etc. And G-d saw the earth & behold it was corrupted, for *all* flesh had corrupted *it's way* upon the earth....13; the end of all flesh has come before Me....
When talking about the days of Noah, people always focus on how bad it was, this was "lawlessness" 2Thess 2.... People never talk about what Noah looked like, or how he was living, or his message at that time... As the days of Noah..... They dont connect Matt 24:38-39 with it either.
Not all people or bad these were just people going about their lives, eating & drinking, marrying, & giving in marriage, and they did not know until the flood came and took them all away..... These are people not paying attention, because they've lost their way & are swallowed up in their lives, themselves.
But Noah was a *Righteous* man *Perfect* in "his" generations and he walked with G-d. What is Righteousness? its right standing with G-d, what is that look like? Keeping His Torah, Dt 6:25; these Commandments I'm giving you this day are *for your* Righteousness......
2Peter 2:5; ....Noah was a *preacher* "of" Righteousness, he was a preacher of the Torah, G-d's Instructions, G-ds Way that man corrupted. There is a "way" that seems right unto man but in the end is death Prov 14:12 😮
Noah was Perfect, how? Ps 19:7-11; the Law of the L-rd is *"Perfect"*, converting the soul, Testimony of the L-rd is sure making the wise simple...11; moreover by them is the servant warned, and in keeping them there is great reward....😊
& We see in Noah, that he was a Righteous man, Perfect, & he *"Walked"* with G-d, how did he do that? By the *faith* in G-d in doing what He Commanded him 🙂. & Think about this for a second, as G-ds Judgment came down on the earth in the form of water, Noah & his household were lifted up *above* the Judgment Gen 7:17 😎
How did Noah find Grace? He kept G-ds Commandments 😋
🤔 So our days have to look like Noah's days before Messiah comes, what do you think we should look like in *"our"* generation? What do you look like in your generation? What do you think our message should be in us, in our generation? How should we be living & what should we be obedient to? If it's going to be just like Noah's days
& A side note, G-d didn't say Noah and *"your family"* have I seen Righteous, He said I've seen Righteousness in you, singular and his family made it. Another one Lot was saved because of the Righteousness of Abraham. And number 3, Acts 16:31; believe on the L-rd Y'shua HaMashiach & you shall be saved, *and your house* 😇
Lol, you not going to hear that message in churches LOL, or Tim lahaye and his Left Behind series, or any other Rapture movies. You'll never see the importance of walking Righteousness with G-d by keeping His Torah in faith of Y'shua before He comes
Something to think about, who missed me 😀 |
I'm not sure Noah kept the Torah, seeing he was deemed righteous long before the Law of Moses was given. If in your understanding Torah is the revealed Law/Commandments at the point in history Noah lived, than yes, he was faithful - seeing as building the ark was a revealed commandment, though a one time one person commandment. Abraham was commanded to go to the Promise Land - again a one time one person commandment.
Types and Shadows are a tricky thing in the Old Testament thank God for the New Testament.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
11/4/18 9:32 am
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| Re: Shalom 😇 |
Isa 58:12 |
| Mat wrote: | | Isa 58:12 wrote: | Keep reading Link, this was on my mind for the last 3 days, & was also the Torah lesson that I taught was on. & I come on here & look what I see 😀. It's not about which "trib" it's gonna happen, it's about what we need to *look like* when it happens, whatever it looks like 😉
Matt 24:37; *as the days of Noah* "were", so shall *also* the coming the Son of man *be*.... What did those days look like? Gen 6:11; now the Earth had become corrupt before G-d, and the Earth had become filled with violence. Some translate it as robbery, idolatry, violence, lawlessness, etc. And G-d saw the earth & behold it was corrupted, for *all* flesh had corrupted *it's way* upon the earth....13; the end of all flesh has come before Me....
When talking about the days of Noah, people always focus on how bad it was, this was "lawlessness" 2Thess 2.... People never talk about what Noah looked like, or how he was living, or his message at that time... As the days of Noah..... They dont connect Matt 24:38-39 with it either.
Not all people or bad these were just people going about their lives, eating & drinking, marrying, & giving in marriage, and they did not know until the flood came and took them all away..... These are people not paying attention, because they've lost their way & are swallowed up in their lives, themselves.
But Noah was a *Righteous* man *Perfect* in "his" generations and he walked with G-d. What is Righteousness? its right standing with G-d, what is that look like? Keeping His Torah, Dt 6:25; these Commandments I'm giving you this day are *for your* Righteousness......
2Peter 2:5; ....Noah was a *preacher* "of" Righteousness, he was a preacher of the Torah, G-d's Instructions, G-ds Way that man corrupted. There is a "way" that seems right unto man but in the end is death Prov 14:12 😮
Noah was Perfect, how? Ps 19:7-11; the Law of the L-rd is *"Perfect"*, converting the soul, Testimony of the L-rd is sure making the wise simple...11; moreover by them is the servant warned, and in keeping them there is great reward....😊
& We see in Noah, that he was a Righteous man, Perfect, & he *"Walked"* with G-d, how did he do that? By the *faith* in G-d in doing what He Commanded him 🙂. & Think about this for a second, as G-ds Judgment came down on the earth in the form of water, Noah & his household were lifted up *above* the Judgment Gen 7:17 😎
How did Noah find Grace? He kept G-ds Commandments 😋
🤔 So our days have to look like Noah's days before Messiah comes, what do you think we should look like in *"our"* generation? What do you look like in your generation? What do you think our message should be in us, in our generation? How should we be living & what should we be obedient to? If it's going to be just like Noah's days
& A side note, G-d didn't say Noah and *"your family"* have I seen Righteous, He said I've seen Righteousness in you, singular and his family made it. Another one Lot was saved because of the Righteousness of Abraham. And number 3, Acts 16:31; believe on the L-rd Y'shua HaMashiach & you shall be saved, *and your house* 😇
Lol, you not going to hear that message in churches LOL, or Tim lahaye and his Left Behind series, or any other Rapture movies. You'll never see the importance of walking Righteousness with G-d by keeping His Torah in faith of Y'shua before He comes
Something to think about, who missed me 😀 |
I'm not sure Noah kept the Torah, seeing he was deemed righteous long before the Law of Moses was given. If in your understanding Torah is the revealed Law/Commandments at the point in history Noah lived, than yes, he was faithful - seeing as building the ark was a revealed commandment, though a one time one person commandment. Abraham was commanded to go to the Promise Land - again a one time one person commandment.
Types and Shadows are a tricky thing in the Old Testament thank God for the New Testament.
Mat |
Shalom Mat, but Torah doesn't just mean Law, it literally means Instructions from G-d, they are His guidelines for life. Before G-d was gonna destroy mankind, what did He say?
Gen 6:5, 6-7, 11, 12-13; and G-d look down upon the earth and behold it was *corrupt*, for All flesh had corrupted "his way" up on the earth 13. & G-d said unto Noah the end of All flesh is come before me where the Earth is filled with violence through them and behold I will destroy them with the earth.
Do you see mat? The G-d Who is Perfect in all His Way had Instructions, Torah. Because if not, how can a Perfect G-d destroy His creation for doing something He didn't say? "If" G-d destroyed His creation without telling them by what standards to live by, he would be an unrighteous god..,
First it was oral, then it was a stone, now it's in our heart.... Shalom
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
11/20/18 11:56 pm
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