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Extra-Biblical spirits like Jezebel and 'spirit of religion'

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **6/25/19 9:02 pm**

When you hear a preacher on TV or YouTube or read an online article listing a dozen characteristics of 'the Jezebel spirit' or the 'spirit of religion' or some other spirit that isn't mentioned in the Bible, what do you think of that? Do you think it's spot on? Does it seem a little weird to you?

When you hear 'spirit of religion' or 'religious spirit' do you think that means a demon or a set of characteristics only? What about a 'Jezebel spirit'? Do you think that is an actual demon or principality, or just a set of characteristics. .
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01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **6/25/19 9:13 pm**

Personally, NO I do not. but that doesn't mean I am right. But that is still my opinion. I always thought it was weird having demons of tobacco and sex, that plagued people. When that trend started it bothered me, still does. THANKS for mentioning it. Cool

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[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **6/26/19 4:48 am**

I definitely think it's weird, extrabiblical, unhelpful, and unfruitful.

It's also irritating when people accuse you of minimizing or not believing in the working of demonic forces because you don't accept the legitimacy of these extrabiblical named spirits.

I think it would be far more helpful to God's people for us to talk about these sets of characteristics in biblical terms, as works of the flesh that the enemy promotes and encourages as he is able.

Someone can cast out that spirit of anger all the want. But things will change when they repent, believe the gospel, and trust in Christ for power and grace to overcome their sin.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **6/26/19 5:48 am**

I'm trying to think of all of the passages that could be stretched to try to teach this stuff.

The most obvious -- perhaps because of Jentezen Franklin's sermon on the topic -- is the "spirit of python" in Acts 16:16. Of course the Bible never says anything about a spirit of python, it calls it a spirit of divination. But the Greek word for divination is "pythÅna" which is where this teaching comes from. Of course, sound exegesis and teaching reveals that Paul is using this word to associate the spirit with region of Pytho and more specifically the oracle of Delphi.

Associating this spirit with demonic oracle-like activity makes sense in light of what the slave girl in Acts 16 was doing. Franklin's twisting of this passage to make this spirit one that "squeezes" the life, joy, and goodness out of believers is especially unbiblical in this context.

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The other that jumps to mind is the reference to Jezebel in Revelation 2:20. Clearly there are some similarities between this woman in the Thyatiran church and Ahab's wife, so it makes sense that the writer (and the Lord!) would use the reference. But again, sound exegesis seems to clearly indicate that Christ is referring to a specific, living individual in the church, rather than a demon who is animating or inspiring one or more individuals.

This seems evident based on Christ's description of having given her time to repent, and His promise to judge and punish her for not having done so (v. 21-23). It's possible that 'Jezebel' here is literally her name, but it's hard to imagine anyone naming their daughter Jezebel. The language here also calls to mind John's reference to the "elect lady" in 2 John 1, which could suggest the reference here is to a group of false prophetesses that were encouraging sexual immorality in the church.

Either way, the passage is talking about people and the works of their flesh, not a demon named Jezebel.

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Am I missing any?

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **6/26/19 9:16 am**

Thought of another one on my drive to work -- Mark 5. But obviously the context here is also not teaching the existence of a named demon that we must contend with.

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **6/26/19 9:36 am**

Since Jesus said that that woman Jezebel taught the people to fornicate and to eat meat offered to idols, that might be the similarity with the ancient Jezebel. Those were aspects of Canaanite religion. Revelation 2 does not mention her controlling her husband or killing prophets. And there is no reference to her being a 'spirit.'

It kind of reminds me of Lilith, a woman from a legend about Adam's first wife before Eve who was rejected because she wanted to be on top. Later Lilith was thought to be an evil spirit that killed babies.
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Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3147 **6/26/19 10:17 am**

"demon of tobacco" made me LOL. I was talking about this the other day, how the COG would demonize it yet they were perfectly fine letting people grow and sell it.

There are definitely demonic forces interested in enslaving people in those ways, but I don't think there is a demon named Jezebel or "spirit of Jezebel" or something like that. If there were, he'd be the busiest and most successful demon out there, but since he'd have to be omnipresent to accomplish all that is blamed on him, then I'm pretty sure the problem is just the sin-nature of mankind. The sin-nature itself doesn't really need help from demons (though I do believe they all try to amplify it as much as they can).

Some thoughts...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **6/26/19 10:34 am**

Do we suppose that the Bible tells us EVERYTHING about demons? No. But it does tell us all we NEED to know (namely, that they have to go in the Name of Jesus, etc.). For instance, wouldn't you like to know more about why the demons wanted to go into the swine? What we have is mainly conjecture.

Wouldn't you like to know where demons come from? Some say they are fallen angels, etc. But to the best of my knowledge, that it nothing but conjecture, too.

However, when someone speaks of a "Jezebel spirit," I do not take this to be a particular DEMON, but rather a set of behaviors that can enable us to be more watchful with people exhibiting those behaviors. Just as the FBI has profilers that can tell us the traits of certain serial killers (believe it or not, cruelty to animals, bed-wetting, and fire starting are three things that show up in many or most serial killer profiles!), we would be foolish to ignore behaviors that often reveal darker things.

The same with the "Jezebel spirit." Like I said, I have never considered that a particular demon, but rather someone who is acting in a way that we believe Jezebel acted. Just as we can see people that are controlling, or insecure, or narcissistic--and can divine from that certain elements that we would be wise to regard in the future with other people/situations--so, too, can we see both negative and positive traits in Biblical characters and draw some conclusions.

For instance, do you recall how Jesus told the disciples (who wanted to call down fire from heaven) that they didn't know what spirit they were of? He is letting them know that they were acting in a manner that was contrary to the pattern/spirit they should have been following.

Now, sometimes, it does indeed get weird. And perhaps this is something that can only be detected by discernment, but, yeah, sometimes people go to some wild places in their teaching, and in such cases, we must take care. I tend to take many things with a grain of salt, not giving exceptional weight to it until I can better study it or confirm it, etc.

Most of us preach sermons that are based on these principles. For instance, we may not call it "the spirit of Esau," we might very well preach a sermon about people who trade their birthright for some bauble, relatively speaking.

Demas? I think we could EASILY come up with a "spirit of Demas." But I think the use of the word "spirit" can get problematic, making people think it is a specific spirit with a specific name, rather than a "profile" that often accompanies people who turn back to the world.

In our mid-week Bible Study, going through the "stories" of the Bible, we spoke of Jezebel. And I simply pointed out some key things that Jezebel exhibited and warned against such things. I might have used the term "Jezebel spirit," but I think it was clear that I meant "actions associated very strongly with Jezebel."

It doesn't have to be in the Bible to be valid (although it helps). Also, the Bible gives us all we NEED to know (even if not all we WANT to know). It can be very beneficial, I think, to dig deeper. God can provide additional insight that might warn us of impending problems. The Bible tells us how to defeat this spirit (and any other), but it may not make it clear just what sort of things show up with these "profiles."

Re: Some thoughts...

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **6/26/19 11:07 am**

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **6/26/19 11:37 am**

I don't know any named demonic spirits.

I've only seen the spirit of DOOFUS displayed. I don't believe it is a demonic spirit - but shows up often on Actscelerate.

I consider Aaron to be the expert - so I will defer to his expertise with the DOOFUS spirit.
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **6/26/19 12:14 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **6/26/19 12:44 pm**

Seems to me that the biblical recipe for deliverance is the same in every single instance, regardless of any type or classification the demon may have, and regardless of how few or many there may be. One's closeness to God may be relevant to the exercise of one's faith in this matter, if Matthew 17:21 is authentic (there are textual issues with this verse).

But otherwise... do I want to seek information outside the Bible about demons and the spirit world, step away from my one authoritative source for verifying information as true, and open myself to whatever spiritual entity wants to try to tell me something?

Yeah, no, I'm good. Thanks.

I was getting ready to say the same thing...

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11798 **6/26/19 12:56 pm**

Re: I was getting ready to say the same thing...

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **6/26/19 1:06 pm**

Re: Some thoughts...

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **6/26/19 1:34 pm**

Dave...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **6/27/19 7:41 am**

Dave,

Right. It's not NECESSARY. But it can be helpful. Consider that something alerted Paul to the fact that the woman had a spirit of divination, EVEN THOUGH SHE WAS TALKING THEM UP! Do you not suppose it would behoove us to try to understand why it took him a while to figure out the matter? Don't you suppose that it would be best to nip it in the bud, rather than let it run free for a few days (positioning itself as having been the first to discern that Paul was from God)?

Yes, everything we NEED spiritually is in the Bible. But do you suppose that is ALL that God has to say about a matter? Do you think God has been silent for 2000 years, not giving us any additional insight? What FOOLS we must be if, after 2000 years, we don't know anything more than what the Early Church knew.

If we evolved as the CHURCH OF GOD, then it stands to reason that we also evolved as part of the universal CHURCH.

I'm not saying you have to accept "python" or "Jezebel." You may not--especially if you find it contrary to the Bible. But to act like there is nothing else USEFUL to us (even if not NECESSARY) seems wrongheaded. Why? Because explaining and delving into the Word is precisely what ministers do! If they didn't, women would be keeping silence in the churches, right?

Ministers take a verse, delve into it, pray about it, and open up insights that we didn't have before. While I'm sure there is plenty of foolishness that goes on, it seems that something similar is happening when people teach on the Jezebel spirit: They are peeling back the layers and trying to expose a certain sort of controlling influence.

So, yes, the Bible tells gives us what we need to defeat a spirit. But so long as we do not conflict with the Bible, it seems reasonable to allow for greater study in an area. Surely you and/or others have not just "stopped with the Creation Story" without at least looking for supporting science, etc.

Re: Dave...

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **6/27/19 7:45 am**

Re: Dave...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **6/27/19 10:24 am**

Re: Dave...

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **6/27/19 10:32 am**

Dave...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **6/27/19 10:41 am**