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 Roy Moore's impossible dilemma... |
Aaron Scott |
None of us know the truth about Roy Moore. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find a high-minded moralizer guilty of rank sin. But here's the thing: There are people wanting him to step down for no other reason than because he was ACCUSED of impropriety.
Think of how that would play out. Someone--anyone--could make a baseless accusation...and that would serve to disqualify a person from running for office. Since when should that EVER be enough? If the devil ever got that to working for him, he would immediately discredit every minister on earth.
If someone accuses someone of sexual impropriety, they ought to have to PROVE it...or be sued for slander. It may be absolutely true, but if you can't prove it, then to accept it anyway opens a Pandora's Box the like of which we haven't seen before.
If Roy Moore DID do the things of which he is accused, I hope he is dealt with appropriately. But if the accusers cannot prove it, they should be dealt with for saying something for which there is no evidence. You don't get to ruin someone's reputation with nothing more than an accusation and then walk away....
I feel this way about Republicans and Democrats. NO ONE should be pushed out just because someone accuses them. Further, if a newspaper prints it as an "allegation," as far as I'm concerned, they ought to be fair game for being sued. Consider that if someone accused one of you of molesting them as a child...then a newspaper printed the "allegation." Your reputation is almost certainly ruined even if the accuser admits it was a lie. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
11/13/17 3:56 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
The accusers should have to submit to a polygraph.
While it seems so unlikely that he could have gotten away with these things all these years, similar things have happened.
A former AG pastor of mine raped 3 women in his office, was running an ecstasy (drug ring)business, tied up a man and pistol whipped him, and was finally caught on film at a strip joint. All while pastoring a 1500 member AG church. The women tried to keep it within the church and complained to the District Board. Their complaints were ignored. This pastor finally was defrocked and spent 7 years in prison.
With Moore, it seems he got a grip earlier on and changed his ways. Perhaps God even did a work. But it seems now to be coming back to haunt him. if the allegations are true. And it is political and not for justice's sake, which is also sad. The Dems could not care less about these women, nor do the RINO's.
I think he will step aside now, but I will always admire the way he defied the Feds when his State's rights were being violated.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
11/13/17 4:17 pm
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| Resident... |
Aaron Scott |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | The accusers should have to submit to a polygraph.
While it seems so unlikely that he could have gotten away with these things all these years, similar things have happened.
A former AG pastor of mine raped 3 women in his office, was running an ecstasy (drug ring)business, tied up a man and pistol whipped him, and was finally caught on film at a strip joint. All while pastoring a 1500 member AG church. The women tried to keep it within the church and complained to the District Board. Their complaints were ignored. This pastor finally was defrocked and spent 7 years in prison.
With Moore, it seems he got a grip earlier on and changed his ways. Perhaps God even did a work. But it seems now to be coming back to haunt him. if the allegations are true. And it is political and not for justice's sake, which is also sad. The Dems could not care less about these women, nor do the RINO's.
I think he will step aside now, but I will always admire the way he defied the Feds when his State's rights were being violated. |
The thing that makes is so hard to dismiss is that there are multiple accusations. That doesn't prove anything, but we all still believe where there's smoke, there's fire.
I tend to think he will find a face-saving way to step aside. But make no mistake--HE IS NOT GOING TO BE COMING BACK. It's over for him when he does step aside. Of course, if he's guilty, he should step aside--NOT for dating younger women (although teenagers is DEFINITELY out there)...but for any sexual liberties or pressure that he was behind.
I suppose one could argue that if he hangs in there and WINS...well, they did their worst, and he wasn't stopped. But then again, if there is that element in him, it can be even further magnified under pressure. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
11/13/17 7:33 pm
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| Re: Resident... |
Resident Skeptic |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | The accusers should have to submit to a polygraph.
While it seems so unlikely that he could have gotten away with these things all these years, similar things have happened.
A former AG pastor of mine raped 3 women in his office, was running an ecstasy (drug ring)business, tied up a man and pistol whipped him, and was finally caught on film at a strip joint. All while pastoring a 1500 member AG church. The women tried to keep it within the church and complained to the District Board. Their complaints were ignored. This pastor finally was defrocked and spent 7 years in prison.
With Moore, it seems he got a grip earlier on and changed his ways. Perhaps God even did a work. But it seems now to be coming back to haunt him. if the allegations are true. And it is political and not for justice's sake, which is also sad. The Dems could not care less about these women, nor do the RINO's.
I think he will step aside now, but I will always admire the way he defied the Feds when his State's rights were being violated. |
The thing that makes is so hard to dismiss is that there are multiple accusations. That doesn't prove anything, but we all still believe where there's smoke, there's fire.
I tend to think he will find a face-saving way to step aside. But make no mistake--HE IS NOT GOING TO BE COMING BACK. It's over for him when he does step aside. Of course, if he's guilty, he should step aside--NOT for dating younger women (although teenagers is DEFINITELY out there)...but for any sexual liberties or pressure that he was behind.
I suppose one could argue that if he hangs in there and WINS...well, they did their worst, and he wasn't stopped. But then again, if there is that element in him, it can be even further magnified under pressure. |
Herman Cain was eventually proven innocent of accusations by multiple accusers. But it ruined his political career.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
11/13/17 7:57 pm
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Cojak |
I sympathize with anyone who is ACCUSED with no proof. Although I know incidents do and always will happen. But honestly 40 years ago?
Some may remember the phychologist that convinced some young girls their father had molested them. They did not even remember anything about it. The man was ruined, lost his wife and family and later it was 'decided' it was all a hoax.
I personally know a man who was accused of molesting a young girl 17, he 23. She recanted, cried, begged that the charges be expunged but they stuck in people's minds. He was the bus driver for a gospel quartet and the slur was cast on the quartet and they could not use him anymore.
It stinks, but it happens. Everyone must be on guard this day. 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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11/13/17 8:03 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
It's quite a dilemma for the GOP now.
At this point, it doesn't matter. Moore may not be toast, but him winning will be worse than him losing. If he loses, a Democrat will serve six years in that seat and then be gone. If he wins, the GOP will have to face this issue again and again for the next six years. Every time Moore does anything, this will surface anew. If he gets a committee assignment, this will surface anew. The press will bring this up every chance they get. It will be an ongoing disaster for six years and the cost will be far higher than losing one seat. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
11/13/17 8:07 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | It's quite a dilemma for the GOP now.
At this point, it doesn't matter. Moore may not be toast, but him winning will be worse than him losing. If he loses, a Democrat will serve six years in that seat and then be gone. If he wins, the GOP will have to face this issue again and again for the next six years. Every time Moore does anything, this will surface anew. If he gets a committee assignment, this will surface anew. The press will bring this up every chance they get. It will be an ongoing disaster for six years and the cost will be far higher than losing one seat. |
We are in a civil war.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
11/13/17 8:36 pm
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Cojak |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | ....
We are in a civil war. |
Yeah and there ain't much civil about it! 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
11/13/17 8:55 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Well, somehow we managed to escape Obama declaring martial law, so I suppose it could have been worse, lol. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
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11/13/17 8:57 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | We are in a civil war. |
Uh... no. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
11/13/17 9:05 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | We are in a civil war. |
Uh... no. |
We indeed are. There are no bullets yet. But it is a civil war.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
11/13/17 9:08 pm
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chestnut ridge |
| Cojak wrote: | I sympathize with anyone who is ACCUSED with no proof. Although I know incidents do and always will happen. But honestly 40 years ago?
Some may remember the phychologist that convinced some young girls their father had molested them. They did not even remember anything about it. The man was ruined, lost his wife and family and later it was 'decided' it was all a hoax.
I personally know a man who was accused of molesting a young girl 17, he 23. She recanted, cried, begged that the charges be expunged but they stuck in people's minds. He was the bus driver for a gospel quartet and the slur was cast on the quartet and they could not use him anymore.
It stinks, but it happens. Everyone must be on guard this day. |
Local folks (from his town) say he had a knack for young girls. It was a known thing, you just stayed away from him. How in the world did he get to the Alabama Supreme court.
Too many folks to be a conspiracy |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1722
11/14/17 5:52 pm
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chestnut ridge |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | It's quite a dilemma for the GOP now.
At this point, it doesn't matter. Moore may not be toast, but him winning will be worse than him losing. If he loses, a Democrat will serve six years in that seat and then be gone. If he wins, the GOP will have to face this issue again and again for the next six years. Every time Moore does anything, this will surface anew. If he gets a committee assignment, this will surface anew. The press will bring this up every chance they get. It will be an ongoing disaster for six years and the cost will be far higher than losing one seat. |
Sad part is he ran a "drain the swamp" candidate. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1722
11/14/17 5:55 pm
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| Roy Moore |
Change Agent |
Saw where Jeff Sessions stated he saw NO reason not to believe the five women accusing Moore.
Nice when good Christian brothers uphold each other.  |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1449
11/14/17 6:56 pm
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| The other thing that makes me go "Hmmmm".... |
Aaron Scott |
Roy Moore has been ELECTED twice before. Where were those accusations then??? You would think they would have surfaced in the previous elections (to the Alabama Supreme Court).
It may be, though, that the Harvey Weinstein matter has emboldened many women to speak out. This, too, can be problematic since, apparently, it is now increasingly acceptable to make an accusation, even if you can't prove it. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
11/15/17 6:15 am
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| Re: Roy Moore |
Nature Boy Florida |
| Change Agent wrote: | Saw where Jeff Sessions stated he saw NO reason not to believe the five women accusing Moore.
Nice when good Christian brothers uphold each other. |
Is everyone a Christian who claims to be a Christian?
I've read that if they said the sinners prayer once they are eternally secure - but is that accurate?
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
11/15/17 7:12 am
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| Without having to check profiles ... |
Mat |
Without having to check profiles, if I can ask, of those posting on this issue is there anyone who lives in Alabama? I don't live there and whoever is elected will not be my senator, so I was just wondering of those (including myself) who have an opinion, are any posters living in AL and going to vote for Moore?
It seems that if the people of AL elect Moore and there is are criminal charges, the Senate will have to seat him. So in the end its up to the voters of AL.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
11/15/17 7:17 am
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| Aaron, no it shouldn't work this way |
bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | If someone accuses someone of sexual impropriety, they ought to have to PROVE it...or be sued for slander. |
Sexual assault is often something that happens when only the perp and victim are present. There very well might not be proof in the way of physical evidence (and sometimes when there is physically injury, the victim fails to disclose it in time because of emotional trauma). Are you suggesting that anyone who is molested should just not report it at all if there is no physical evidence? Surely not.
You really should delve into finding out how often victims have just tried to live with it without reporting because they knew they wouldn't be believed.
Should we be careful about rushing to judgment? Certainly! Should we be alarmed when innocent people are falsely accused. Absolutely! Should there be consequences for false accusations. Yes!
But should we silence everyone unless they can PROVE their testimony? What kind of proof are you talking about? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/15/17 10:59 am
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| Re: Aaron, no it shouldn't work this way |
Cojak |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | If someone accuses someone of sexual impropriety, they ought to have to PROVE it...or be sued for slander. |
Sexual assault is often something that happens when only the perp and victim are present. There very well might not be proof in the way of physical evidence (and sometimes when there is physically injury, the victim fails to disclose it in time because of emotional trauma). Are you suggesting that anyone who is molested should just not report it at all if there is no physical evidence? Surely not.
You really should delve into finding out how often victims have just tried to live with it without reporting because they knew they wouldn't be believed.
Should we be careful about rushing to judgment? Certainly! Should we be alarmed when innocent people are falsely accused. Absolutely! Should there be consequences for false accusations. Yes!
But should we silence everyone unless they can PROVE their testimony? What kind of proof are you talking about? |
As they say in the old country, 'This is a sticky wicket'. Yes it is impossible to KNOW when it is 'he said she said or she said he did and he says He didn't!' I am not crazy about 'lie detectors' or body English 'readers'. I certainly don't know what evidence one could have. I would feel harder toward Moore if a pattern had developed over the past 30 years.
But Mat is right about the vote and voters, it is going to be a tough one for his state at the voter's booth. OUCH!
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
11/15/17 12:00 pm
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