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COG Bylaws Proposed Changes for GA22 (link)

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **4/27/22 2:57 pm**

Well, this should generate some discussion!

https://us6.campaign-archive.com/?e=__test_email__&u=98e1da87c6ba38bba6f45c48b&id=1f0f0181ff
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Acts-celerater Posts: 787 **4/28/22 2:08 pm**

So can we assume that none of these amendments, especially #4, are important to those who have a vote? Or maybe those who do have a vote are no longer here?
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Friendly Face Posts: 387 **4/29/22 2:21 am**

Women bishop back on the floor. How many times has it been brought to the floor? Seems like every GA.

The Southern Baptists Have it Right

Acts-celerater Posts: 875 **4/29/22 9:09 am**

From the SBC:

Southern Baptists believe the place to begin in this, as in all doctrinal questions, is to ask, "What does the Bible say?" Even a cursory reading of the pertinent texts prompts three important observations: 1) there were no known women pastors in New Testament times; 2) none of the instructions regarding church order include instructions for women pastors; and 3) some texts on church order explicitly forbid women to occupy that role. In 1 Timothy 2:12, written with the specific purpose of regulating the office of pastor and the orderly function of the churches, Paul writes, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man" (NIV). Paul does not expect that women will not or cannot learn or teach (compare with Titus 2:3-5 and 2 Tim. 1:5; 3:14,15). He concludes women cannot have a pastoral position, or perform the pastoral function, for that puts them in authority over men in the life of the church.

The question at hand is not whether women are of equal value to men, nor is it whether they can minister effectively. They are, and they do! Nor, is it an issue of the autonomy of the local church. It is, rather, that the Scripture assigns the role of pastor to males.

The Bible's teaching on pastoral qualifications does not mean it is anti-woman. On the contrary, numerous passages speak clearly and forcibly to the inherent worth and value of women. Women in the New Testament engaged in significant ministry, performing valuable service in sometimes difficult situations. This is readily seen in the Acts of the Apostles. Both Priscilla and Aquila spoke privately to Apollos at Ephesus (Acts 18:24-26), correcting his incomplete and flawed theology. Further, women clearly played a considerable role in the work of the apostle Paul. In his letter to the Romans, Paul identified sixteen noteworthy helpers in ministry (16:1-16), and at least ten of them were women. Women in the New Testament, as they do today, participated in varied ministry, which served to strengthen and conserve the churches.

Southern Baptists are not anti-woman; indeed, they affirm the leadership of women in family, business, politics, and a wide array of human endeavors. Furthermore, women are an integral and invaluable part of the Body of Christ, serving in a broad variety of important roles both as volunteers and vocational ministers. We don't know how to say this more strongly: women and men are of equal value! However, because Scripture speaks specifically to the role of pastor, churches are under a moral imperative to be guided by that teaching, rather than the shifting opinions of human cultures.

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **4/29/22 10:52 am**

Since I don't have a dog in this fight I guess this is silly, but do WE as a church down play the other denominations that accept that the 'position of women' were the custom of the times? Or deriving that solid 'NO' position saying times and customs have nothing to do with Christianity today or scripture interpretations?

Our lady evangelists are some of the best, or were. Does that not sorta hint of some authority over men?

I guess we are beating a dead horse at the GA, but if the Lord tarries this will be brought up again and again until the 'Old Guard' has passed and new thinking votes to make some changes.

I guess my mind questions the many preachers of today who see scripture in a different light with different ages. In America not many folks ride donkeys or walk to church anymore. We no longer pray on schedule nor worship or discuss scripture in a Temple. Wink

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[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **4/29/22 3:06 pm**

The proposed amendment plainly states that if passed, this will not allow women to become Ordained Bishops. It only allows ordained women ministers who otherwise meet the next standard for bishops to attend and vote in the General Council sessions.

I see this as a good and fair measure, and hope it passes.

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **4/30/22 10:08 pm**

Re: The Southern Baptists Have it Right

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **4/30/22 10:10 pm**

Friendly Face Posts: 387 **5/1/22 1:57 am**

MY MY!!! AGAIN!!! 4 YEARS AND NO ASSEMBLY and this is all they can come up with.

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **5/1/22 3:15 pm**

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **5/2/22 5:05 am**

We attended a SBC many years ago when my kids were involved in a youth group. The pastor was a strict Calvinist who suppressed women. I asked him one day why a woman was allowed to sing the word of God but not speak the word of God in the pulpit and he had no answer. he just stood there and laughed. It is a cop-out to say that you believe what the Bible says. Men interpret the Bible to suit their own purposes. Don’t believe me? Why are there 40,000 denominations in the world? So, even in the COG, men will use the Bible for their own purposes. One has been to keep women out of leadership.

The COG Has Been Wrong for Decades

Acts-celerater Posts: 875 **5/7/22 7:25 am**

I'm not sure who is trying to subjugate women, but not me. We have female deacons, female department heads, and female leads in many of our ministries. But we are also a Bible-based church and the scripture says women cannot be elders, and therefore cannot be pastors. Those roles, for some reason, are reserved for men. Read the Bible.

Here's the deal....

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **5/7/22 7:01 pm**

First, I don't know of any more outspoken opponent of women in DENOMINATIONAL leadership than I was. But....

First, I realized that, if not this GA, or the next GA, still, sooner or later women will be included. The Church of God that most of us grew up in has changed. Not necessarily for the worse, but still...it has changed. THAT Church of God is not coming back again.

We can go back to preaching about outward adornment, singing only out of the Red Back, etc....but that Church of God is gone. It just is.

Then I realized something else. I can and did make a very good case, I think, against women in leadership. But then I got to seeing there was one thing I could not, with all my theological superpowers, do: I COULD NOT FIND A SINGLE VERSE THAT SAID WOMEN COULD NOT BE IN LEADERSHIP! Not one!

Yes, I know the examples in the Bible. No, I don't think Junia was a female apostle. But...

But I still couldn't find a clear statement AGAINST women in leadership. If we went with the thing about women keeping silent in the church, the Bro. Eddie's point slammed it to the mat: If we let women sing, pray, testify, teach, etc. in church, then we are not making them keep silent. So I knew right then that that was NOT what Paul meant. And if he did, then I also understood that it was not a command from God, but his own judgment (which, yes, is important, but not necessarily inspired).

So I don't fight women in leadership any longer. After all, it is GOING to happen. What I do fight it bad arguments about the matter, claims of misogynism, etc. No, I still don't prefer women in leadership, but that doesn't mean I'm right.

It may be my PREFERENCE, but it is not, as best I can tell, a PRINCIPLE of scripture.

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3658 **5/8/22 9:31 am**

The word of advice that changed my mind on women preaching was: "If God can speak through a donkey, He can speak through a woman".

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **5/8/22 11:19 pm**

Acts-dicted Posts: 7604 **5/11/22 4:36 am**

Carolyn...if most women don't care, then why does it continue to show up on the Agenda?

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **5/17/22 11:29 am**

Why? Because there is an AGENDA of SOME at the highest levels. I don't know if their wives are pushing them or what, but if few women care about it, then...why is it still showing up after being REPEATEDLY shot down?

It's certainly not because of some scriptural mandate. So what gives?

Re: Carolyn...if most women don't care, then why does it continue to show up on the Agenda?

Acts-dicted Posts: 7604 **6/11/22 12:41 pm**

Re: Carolyn...if most women don't care, then why does it continue to show up on the Agenda?

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **6/12/22 7:22 am**

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **6/14/22 8:48 am**

It really appears it will be easier for a woman to transition to a man, get forgiveness from God, but stay a man with surgical parts and be allowed to vote - than for the GA to vote them in as full voting ministers.

Very sad.

Let women vote already. They work along side all of us. Let them have a say.

I am tired of keeping them out.

It's time.
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