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Quiet Wyatt |
| The non-WoFer side of this debate has always maintained that the Scriptures do indeed reveal that unbelief is sometimes the thing that prevents a miracle from happening. We (or at least I) have never claimed that it is all simply and only a matter of God’s will, period. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
4/30/18 6:32 pm
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| Quiet Wyatt... |
Aaron Scott |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | The non-WoFer side of this debate has always maintained that the Scriptures do indeed reveal that unbelief is sometimes the thing that prevents a miracle from happening. We (or at least I) have never claimed that it is all simply and only a matter of God’s will, period. |
Agreed. However, I am trying to make the case, piece by piece, that sometimes God DOES NOT heal...but is WILLING to heal...and that the difference is that we do not have the appropriate faith.
This position works well with the larger position I hold: Namely, that it is ALWAYS God's will to heal, but that there are simply times when we do not have the appropriate faith.
Now, let me say that it is IMPOSSIBLE to have enough faith to cause God to do what He does NOT want to do. If God does NOT want someone healed, well, that person is not going to get healed.
But I claim that it is always God's will to heal. And so, that leads me to the position that if a person comes for healing, the problem is on OUR end (either the person who is sick or the person who is praying for the sick). If it were truly the case that it was (at least most of the time) not God's will to heal, then we would have reason to question why the prayers of the apostle's seem to be so much more effective than ours. Either God was willing to heal back then, but not now (or at least less so)...or they had faith we don't quite have now (there may be more possibilities, but those seem to be the main two).
The non-WOF'ers (as you put it) need to address whether it is now God's will to heal LESS than He did back then...or whether believers do not have the same sort of faith as back then. So far, at least from OTCP, the answer seems to be pretty much that "Hey, don't look at me--it wasn't God's will."
But if so, that must mean that God has changed since way back then. I mean, the healings and miracles in the NT seem to be pretty much off the charts compared to today. And that means that we either have to accept cessation or at least a de-acceleration (so to speak)...or acknowledge that we do not have the faith that is needed.
If we DO have the faith that is needed, than it must be either a case of cessation or something fairly close to it. That is, if the reason people don't get healed in the ratios the NT seems to indicate is because God isn't willing, then we have a whole lot more to worry about than who has enough faith! |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
4/30/18 7:32 pm
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| Re: NBF... |
Quiet Wyatt |
The following is what I was directly responding to: | Aaron Scott wrote: |
This is something your side of the debate has to deal with. For it means that there seem to be cases where GOD would heal...if only there was the appropriate level of faith. If this is indeed the case, then that means that there are likely times when someone doesn’t get healed, NOT because God is unwilling, but because men were lacking the sort of faith needed for the situation. |
My view, as I have stated before, is that it is God’s will to heal all who believe, in His time. For some (not a precise knowable percentage, though), their ultimate and final healing will occur in the resurrection. As to why some who have genuine faith are not healed in this life, that remains an inscrutable mystery, and I can only consider it sheer folly to assume one can know with a certainty why some are not healed, even though they demonstrate just as much faith as another who is healed. |
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Posts: 12817
4/30/18 7:48 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| And no, I do not believe it is somehow that God is less willing to heal today. Then again, He didn’t heal everyone he could have back then, either. It is a mystery, that calls the faithful to know their lives are truly in the hands of a loving Father, who works all things together for good for those who love Him. Whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. |
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Posts: 12817
4/30/18 7:51 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| I do believe that one reason we may not see the number and kind of miracles Jesus had in His earthly ministry is because we have not ‘paid the price’ through fervent, importunate prayer and fasting that He (and the apostles in Acts) did. One might classify such as simply an application of true faith, but even if one does, it seems to be something Jesus and the early church had to a great degree, which we today undeniably lack. |
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Posts: 12817
4/30/18 10:02 pm
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