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 The latter times "falling away" - read this carefully |
bradfreeman |
READ CAREFULLY
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer. 1 Tim 4:1-5
Some claim the message of grace and freedom is a falling away, a seducing spirit, a doctrine of devils. Read this closer.
Deceitful spirits, doctrines of devils, the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience is NOT the message of freedom. It's the message of the bondage of religion that:
1. Forbids marriage (rules)
2. Abstains from foods (rules)
Those who BELIEVE and KNOW THE TRUTH are free. They know that:
1. Everything created by God is good.
2. Nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude.
When you "fall away from the faith", you fall into religious rules.
Faith = freedom.
The Truth you know makes you free and whom the Son sets free is free indeed. (Jn 8:32-36) Enjoy life with gratitude.
Pay no attention to the message of the bondage of religion that calls God's creation bad, sees evil everywhere and is always adding to the list of things it forbids and abstains from. THAT doctrine of devils wants you obsessed with the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
10/31/16 7:14 am
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| Re: The latter times "falling away" - read this carefully |
Nature Boy Florida |
| bradfreeman wrote: |
Some claim the message of grace and freedom is a falling away... |
Who says this?
I know it is Halloween - but this massive straw man is misplaced.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
10/31/16 7:25 am
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| Re: The latter times "falling away" - read this carefully |
bradfreeman |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: |
Some claim the message of grace and freedom is a falling away... |
Who says this?
I know it is Halloween - but this massive straw man is misplaced. |
Charisma magazine, David Ravenhill, Mike Brown...
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
10/31/16 7:28 am
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| Re: The latter times "falling away" - read this carefully |
Nature Boy Florida |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: |
Some claim the message of grace and freedom is a falling away... |
Who says this?
I know it is Halloween - but this massive straw man is misplaced. |
Charisma magazine, David Ravenhill, Mike Brown... |
Perhaps you should go to their website and submit your treatise.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
10/31/16 8:13 am
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| Re: The latter times "falling away" - read this carefully |
bradfreeman |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: |
Some claim the message of grace and freedom is a falling away... |
Who says this?
I know it is Halloween - but this massive straw man is misplaced. |
Do you like and agree with OP?
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
10/31/16 2:03 pm
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| Re: The latter times "falling away" - read this carefully |
Resident Skeptic |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: |
Some claim the message of grace and freedom is a falling away... |
Who says this?
I know it is Halloween - but this massive straw man is misplaced. |
Do you like and agree with OP? |
How about abstaining from fleshly lusts that war against the soul? Is that a rule?
The OP is obviously talking about Jewish oriented legalism. None of the men you cited teach this. They do teach separation from the world, which is an apostolic command.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
11/1/16 4:51 am
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| Re: The latter times "falling away" - read this carefully |
bradfreeman |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | How about abstaining from fleshly lusts that war against the soul? Is that a rule?
The OP is obviously talking about Jewish oriented legalism. None of the men you cited teach this. They do teach separation from the world, which is an apostolic command. |
Separation from "the world" means separation from Jewish oriented legalism. The "world" that hated Jesus was Jewish legalism. The "world" that hated the early church was Jewish legalism. The "world" that persecutes grace is law. They teach a mixed message. When we rely on our behavior as any part of the basis for our confidence toward God, our blessing, our access to the Spirit or miracles, we are preaching a mixed message -- faith in Jesus + faith in our performance.
There are a lot of NT encouragements to forgive, to give, to avoid evil, to speak, to go and do many other things. But they are NOT any part of the basis of our righteousness, our blessing, miracles or our life in Christ. The finished work of Christ is the basis for every spiritual blessing in Heavenly places and all else that God freely gives us. As we believe that, we access it.
Is there another passage you'd like to discuss?
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
11/1/16 7:11 am
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| Re: The latter times "falling away" - read this carefully |
Resident Skeptic |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | How about abstaining from fleshly lusts that war against the soul? Is that a rule?
The OP is obviously talking about Jewish oriented legalism. None of the men you cited teach this. They do teach separation from the world, which is an apostolic command. |
Separation from "the world" means separation from Jewish oriented legalism. The "world" that hated Jesus was Jewish legalism. The "world" that hated the early church was Jewish legalism. The "world" that persecutes grace is law. They teach a mixed message. When we rely on our behavior as any part of the basis for our confidence toward God, our blessing, our access to the Spirit or miracles, we are preaching a mixed message -- faith in Jesus + faith in our performance.
There are a lot of NT encouragements to forgive, to give, to avoid evil, to speak, to go and do many other things. But they are NOT any part of the basis of our righteousness, our blessing, miracles or our life in Christ. The finished work of Christ is the basis for every spiritual blessing in Heavenly places and all else that God freely gives us. As we believe that, we access it.
Is there another passage you'd like to discuss? |
I agree. Just changing behavior on our own will not save us. If I committed just one sin in my life and lived perfectly for every other second of my life, all of my goodness would never atone for the one sin I did commit. I'd still be lost. However, the same grace that saves us is the same grace that TEACHES us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; (Titus 2:12). That grace is not an abstract. That grace is the Spirit of God himself changing us from the inside out, not by the letter. Therefore, if there is no fruit of holiness being born in one's life , they are not being taught by grace and might not have ever really been saved by grace to begin with.
And when did any of those men you mentioned ever teach that we are to keep Jewish rules? You are misrepresenting them.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
11/1/16 8:47 am
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| Thanks, Brad for the fresh insight on the meaning of "the world"... |
Mark Ledbetter |
Now I can read these passages properly:
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole Jewish oriented legalism and forfeits his soul? - Mt. 16:26
For God so loved the Jewish oriented legalism that He gave His only begotten Son... - John 3:16
And Jesus said, For judgment I came into this Jewish oriented legalism... - John 9:39
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the Jewish oriented legalism... - Rom 5:12
It is a trustworthy statement, deserving all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the Jewish oriented legalism to save sinners... - 1 Tim 1:15
Do not love the Jewish oriented legalism nor the things in the Jewish oriented legalism. If anyone loves the Jewish oriented legalism, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the Jewish oriented legalism is the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the Jewish oriented legalism.
Truly I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole Jewish oriented legalism, what this woman has done will also be spoken of in memory of her. - Matt 26:13
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole Jewish oriented legalism. - Romans 1:8
for until the Law sin was in the Jewish oriented legalism, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. - Romans 5:13
Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the Jewish oriented legalism, and that there is no God but one. - 1 Corinthians 8:4
remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the Jewish oriented legalism. - Eph 2:12
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the Jewish oriented legalism, taken up to glory. - 1 Timothy 3:16
For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the Jewish oriented legalism was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. - Romans 4:13
This teaching that the world is Jewish oriented legalism is another attempt to read into the Scriptures what is not there. It is a distortion of what the Scriptures teach about separation from the world as the Apostles taught and wrote.
_________________
God-Honoring
Christ-Centered
Bible-Based
Spirit-Led
(This is how I want to be) |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2109
11/1/16 1:44 pm
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| Re: Thanks, Brad for the fresh insight on the meaning of "the world"... |
bradfreeman |
| Mark Ledbetter wrote: | Now I can read these passages properly:
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole Jewish oriented legalism and forfeits his soul? - Mt. 16:26
For God so loved the Jewish oriented legalism that He gave His only begotten Son... - John 3:16
And Jesus said, For judgment I came into this Jewish oriented legalism... - John 9:39
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the Jewish oriented legalism... - Rom 5:12
It is a trustworthy statement, deserving all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the Jewish oriented legalism to save sinners... - 1 Tim 1:15
Do not love the Jewish oriented legalism nor the things in the Jewish oriented legalism. If anyone loves the Jewish oriented legalism, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the Jewish oriented legalism is the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the Jewish oriented legalism.
Truly I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole Jewish oriented legalism, what this woman has done will also be spoken of in memory of her. - Matt 26:13
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole Jewish oriented legalism. - Romans 1:8
for until the Law sin was in the Jewish oriented legalism, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. - Romans 5:13
Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the Jewish oriented legalism, and that there is no God but one. - 1 Corinthians 8:4
remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the Jewish oriented legalism. - Eph 2:12
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the Jewish oriented legalism, taken up to glory. - 1 Timothy 3:16
For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the Jewish oriented legalism was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. - Romans 4:13
This teaching that the world is Jewish oriented legalism is another attempt to read into the Scriptures what is not there. It is a distortion of what the Scriptures teach about separation from the world as the Apostles taught and wrote. |
Your narrow bent is obvious. Clearly, the word "world" will have different meaning in different contexts. For example:
God so loved the "world". John 3:16
Love not the "world". 1 Jn 2:15
Why, as though you were living in the "world" do you obey its rules? Col 2:20
Who was the "world" that hated Jesus? Was it the woman caught in adultery? The woman at the well? Zachzeus? Mary Magdalene? Or the Jewish leadership?
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
11/2/16 6:54 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Clearly Mark, the word "world" means whatever Brad says it means - at the time he posts it...but of a certainty - whatever it means at that time - means you are full of Jewish oriented legalism.
Get it straight.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
11/2/16 7:10 am
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| Brad, your take on the world |
Mark Ledbetter |
is more philosophical than theological.
It can't be supported by Scripture.
It is true John had a bias against "the Jews" (Judeans) to the south, and used the reference not to the populace of Judah but to the Spiritual leadership, much like the Synoptics used Pharisee.
But there is no viable argument that "the world" in John implied Jewish oriented legalism.
The world (Jewish oriented legalism) cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil." - John 7:7
Further, you fail to cite one passage from Paul or other Apostles that implies world means Jewish oriented legalism. There are none.
You are blinded by your agenda. You have declared war on Jewish oriented legalism, but you allow your passion to influence your interpretation.
_________________
God-Honoring
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Posts: 2109
11/2/16 8:50 am
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| Re: Brad, your take on the world |
bradfreeman |
| Mark Ledbetter wrote: | is more philosophical than theological.
It can't be supported by Scripture.
It is true John had a bias against "the Jews" (Judeans) to the south, and used the reference not to the populace of Judah but to the Spiritual leadership, much like the Synoptics used Pharisee.
But there is no viable argument that "the world" in John implied Jewish oriented legalism.
The world (Jewish oriented legalism) cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil." - John 7:7
Further, you fail to cite one passage from Paul or other Apostles that implies world means Jewish oriented legalism. There are none.
You are blinded by your agenda. You have declared war on Jewish oriented legalism, but you allow your passion to influence your interpretation. |
I am opposed to any message that implies that Jewish Law has anything to do with our righteousness, life or blessing. It simply doesn't.
But let's talk about the "world" that hates us (Jn 15:18) and the "world" we are to hate (1 Jn 2:15).
What isn't it?
Well, the physical planet doesn't hate.
The physical planet doesn't lust.
We aren't commanded NOT to love people.
His commandment is to love people, even our enemies.
So the world that hates us isn't the dirt, the rocks and the sky and the world we are not to love isn't people in the context of these verses.
Perhaps an easier way to see what the "world" is in 1 Jn 2 is to see that John describes the world as the:
1) lust of the flesh
2) lust of the eyes; and
3) pride of life
These are the 3 failures in the garden...(1) it's good for food, (2) a delight to the eye, and (3) desirable to make one wise. The Law is simply the fruition of that Tree of Death. It is, literally, the ministry of death (2 Cor. 3:5-9), the letter that kills. The world is the knowledge of good and evil. the Jewish legal system, or Judaism, is simply that fruitless fig tree that could only clean the outside of the cup, whitewash the tomb, cover our shame with fig leaves and sheep's clothes, but could not produce good fruit, or cleanse the heart by faith (because the Law is not of faith).
The Law was all about the flesh--what family you were born in, whether you cut your flesh, whether your flesh behaved.
The Law was all about the eyes--what man looks on (the outward appearance), wearing robes, looking whitewashed or dressed like a sheep.
The Law was all about the pride of life--establishing a righteousness of your own, sitting in the highest seat, building a tower from the red clay and straw of the flesh.
John also said:
1 Jn 2:17 The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.
Well the planet is still here. What passed away? The obsolete Jewish legal system called the Law.
Heb. 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
The Law is not eternal. It is "growing old". Well, it finally passed away.
Col 2:20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!”
The world here is clearly not the planet where we are physically living.
What does the "world" decree? Rules.
Gal. 4:3 So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
Paul clearly says the "under the elemental things of the world" held us in bondage.
We who were "under the Law" were redeemed from this bondage and are no longer slaves, but sons.
The "world" here is the Law that held us before faith came and set us free.
There are just 2 trees.
One that bears good fruit and one that cannot.
The Law was a tree that ministered death flowing from the tree of death.
The Law cannot make anyone righteous.
The Law cannot give life to anyone.
Those under the Law were thieves who hated Jesus, stole, killed and destroyed (Jn 10:8).
John 10:8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them.
John 8:40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 You are doing the deeds of your father.” They said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
The world that hates, that lusts, that kills, that holds people in bondage is the knowledge of good and evil brought to fruition in the Jewish legal system of the Law. It kills.
John 5:16 For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. 17 But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.” 18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
What produced this in the Jews? The fruit of the Tree of Death.
Rom. 7:8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was not evil, it was good as was all of His creation. But it produced death, it killed Adam, it killed Abel. The Law is not evil, it is good. But it kills and cannot give life.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
11/2/16 12:23 pm
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