Actscelerate.com

Re: Taxes

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **9/25/11 7:45 pm**

Tom Sterbens...

Golf Cart Mafia Soldier Posts: 2295 **9/25/11 8:27 pm**

Tom, regarding my statement:

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **9/25/11 9:50 pm**

Right on Carolyn

Acts-celerater Posts: 704 **9/25/11 10:19 pm**

Its a comment for the local newspaper so probable someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. I highly doubt that a church that is well established like this one doesn't know the proper tax codes / regulations and I'm sure they have legal counsel in regards to this issue. I'm guessing its someone talking out of the wrong part of their body. (thats the nicest way to say what i really wanna say! ha!)

Re: Tom Sterbens...

Acts-celerater Posts: 720 **9/26/11 12:40 pm**

Jason...

Golf Cart Mafia Soldier Posts: 2295 **9/26/11 2:18 pm**

While I don't believe all gays are "born gay," it would not surprise me in the least if some are.

The church is often afraid that if we acknowledge that, we have to then say, "Well, I guess homosexual behavior is OK." Of course, that doesn't make sense.

I was born a raging heterosexual...and yet I was called to behave myself, etc.

So, too, will those who are "born gay." They STILL have to maintain celibacy, etc.

Acts-celerater Posts: 720 **9/26/11 2:30 pm**

i think you're right on Florida. There are a lot of different possibilities, and we are fairly young when it comes to the science on this. It may be that it happens pre-natally or it might happen as the result of an early childhood experience--neither of these two are things anyone could choose.

Further, homosexual behavior could be the result of perverted sexual desires that come about as an adult. Whichever the case, the church needs to do a better job of addressing this issue.
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Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1702 **9/26/11 2:50 pm**

So yes or no, are we still ok telling people that homosexuality is a sin.
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We are beating the bushes for mice and the lions are tearing us apart.

Acts-celerater Posts: 720 **9/26/11 4:10 pm**

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **9/26/11 7:03 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **9/26/11 7:12 pm**

One very big problem in this debate is the Bible doesn't recognize the modern invention of 'sexual orientation' as such.

What the Bible condemns as sin is homosexual activity.

Acts-celerater Posts: 720 **9/26/11 9:06 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **9/26/11 9:48 pm**

Though the regenerate Christian was formerly wicked, his identity is no longer found in depravity. He is now begotten of God, a saint.

The 'sexual orientation' idea says that people are gay, that that is their immutable identity. This same 'orientation' concept is fundamental to the 'pro-gay Christian' movement.

I also think the issue of spiritual influence (i.e., evil spirits vs. Holy Spirit) has to be factored into the equation as well. As I'm sure you know, Paul speaks of the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience in sharp contradistinction to the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit.

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **9/26/11 10:03 pm**

I am FB friends with a man who is openly gay and in the last few years has become (as his sister puts it) The Angry Gay Man. Many of his posts are about political things & how unfair the right wing idiots are, etc. I felt compelled to disagree with him once and was immediately & visciously attacked by his friends. (One told me I should go kill myself.) Point being, he firmly believes that "God made me this way, so it's OK." It is part of the basis of his beliefs. He believes he is a Christian, even though (homosexuality aside) his lifestyle is one of indulgence of this flesh and openly bragging about it.

So this is a very important point in the homosexual community. He also told me that "loving the sinner and hating the sin" is still hating the sinner.

I agree that we don't handle this issue well, because we don't know how.
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Wyatt

Golf Cart Mafia Soldier Posts: 2295 **9/27/11 7:02 am**

Can you explain the sexual orientation thing? Are you saying a person can have a homosexual orientation without being gay (i.e., gay is a behavior, not an orientation)? I can agree with that. But at the same time, I don't disagree either with calling that person gay (but celibate), if they are a Christian.

Golf Cart Mafia Soldier Posts: 2458 **9/27/11 7:54 am**

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3063 **9/27/11 8:38 am**

This is the kind of conversation the church needs to have. We spend a week at GA doing business and electing people- and we haven't really dealt with doctrine and culture in decades! But these are the kinds of questions that pastors and churches deal with. It's not as black and white as we want to make it out to be. The easy way is not always the right way.

Here is my question. Let's just say, hypothetically, that science proves 100% without any doubt that some people are born with no sexual attraction to the opposite sex, and full sexual attraction to the same sex. How does that change the way we interpret scripture? What would become the practical implications?

Daniel...agreed!

Golf Cart Mafia Soldier Posts: 2295 **9/27/11 9:15 am**

The General Assembly was originally conceived as a gathering to discuss doctrine. But it usually is only indirectly related to doctrine, at best. It's often political positions dressed up in doctrinal clothes or argued with scripture (kind of like someone arguing capitalism from scripture, or socialism--it's really about the politics, not the scriptures).

I am convinced that very few, if any, homosexuals are ever "cured." The reason is because I am equally convinced that their orientation is a much a part of them as my heterosexual orientation is part of me. As a young man, thinking that I must surely be the worst of sinners for having any desire for women, I prayed 10,000 prayers for God to take away my desires. He never did. Not even for 30 seconds.

When I have heard testimonies of gays who speak of having prayed and pleaded with God to remove the longings within them, I remember how I felt.

So, for ME, not a single thing changes whether a gay is born that way or becomes that way through no fault of his own. EITHER WAY, we know that they cannot help how they feel about matters. And EITHER WAY they are called to live according to God's standards.

If they can marry someone of the opposite sex and be faithful and happy, I don't have a problem with that (though I suppose full disclosure might be called for). Otherwise, they are called to celibacy. Just like a priest or single person would be.

I do wish we'd discuss such things at the denomination level. We MIGHT be able to impact the homosexual community by showing them a "way back." I am convinced that many gays love the Lord. But, having been told that they are going to hell, etc., may have given up hope and just embraced the lifestyle, behavior and all. If they could see that the Church of God understood that their feelings were not of their own doing, but that they were still called to holiness, that perhaps God would use their sublimated feelings to his greater glory, they might find a way back.

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1702 **9/27/11 10:35 am**

Wouldn't change my mind in the least. Same as if science proved evolution was true and factual.
I'd still believe the creation exactly like I always have.

No implication for me. Orientation is a choice.

Does that make me stubborn? Yes
Does that make me narrow and closed minded? Yes

Do I really care what others believe or thing? Not so much.

Patrick.
_________________
We are beating the bushes for mice and the lions are tearing us apart.

Sexual orientation

Belt Jerker Posts: 511 **9/27/11 10:55 am**

God does not make anyone a homosexual. It is a choice. Biblical order is clear. Cows cannot produce calves without a bull. God's law cannot be changed.

I will agree that a persons surroundings greatly effect one's preferences for anything. However, to say one believes he is born this way is absolutely contrary to scriptures. God would not and cannot contradict His word.

Show me anywhere in scripture to support the idea of us being born with a homosexual orientation. There are instances in scriptures where people were born with physical handicaps, but I have never seen this idea of "God made me this way," to be supported with scripture.