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 The GOP establishment has chosen Trump |
UncleJD |
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| Re: The GOP establishment has chosen Trump |
diakoneo |
Yes.
I cannot figure the Trump base who claim to be conservative.
Trump has worked the system for years on the other side, using eminent domain. Feeding both sides with money. Now, he wants to be the anti-establishment candidate 
I wonder if people wake up before the election or with a massive Trump hangover sometime afterward. |
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Posts: 3382
1/21/16 11:07 am
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | They decided to put Sarah Palin out there to keep the conservative/tea-party base in Trump's camp rather than put their arch-nemesis Ted Cruz in the lead. |
Who is the "they" in this sentence? And what did "they" do to make Palin endorse Trump? |
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1/21/16 11:49 am
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UncleJD |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | They decided to put Sarah Palin out there to keep the conservative/tea-party base in Trump's camp rather than put their arch-nemesis Ted Cruz in the lead. |
Who is the "they" in this sentence? And what did "they" do to make Palin endorse Trump? |
From the context of the subject line, it should be easy to derive that "they" are the established leadership within the party, but your angle is obvious so, you're right Bonnie, there is no establishment in the major parties, they are all just really nice neutral parties with no internal agenda to preserve their power. Even the media concedes that there are establishment agendas within each party, insiders and outsiders, etc.. There is no need to debate that. |
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1/21/16 12:27 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | you're right Bonnie, there is no establishment in the major parties, they are all just really nice neutral parties with no internal agenda to preserve their power |
When have I ever said there is no establishment????
What I'm trying to figure out about your statement is why you think Palin is controlled by the establishment or if you think Palin is the establishment.
I part ways with Palin in her endorsement of Trump, but I've never seen her as part of the establishment or as controlled by the establishment. |
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1/21/16 1:29 pm
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UncleJD |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | you're right Bonnie, there is no establishment in the major parties, they are all just really nice neutral parties with no internal agenda to preserve their power |
When have I ever said there is no establishment????
What I'm trying to figure out about your statement is why you think Palin is controlled by the establishment or if you think Palin is the establishment.
I part ways with Palin in her endorsement of Trump, but I've never seen her as part of the establishment or as controlled by the establishment. |
sorry if I got you wrong. Bob Dole is clearly in the neo-con establishment camp and always has been, Palin ran with McCain the poster-boy of everything wrong with the Republican party which calls her into question, she has got along with the leadership ever since, she's sort of their tea-party pacifier card. Her support came out at or about the same time as Bob Dole's which I find disturbing, she was known to support Ted Cruz 4 years ago and now this? I think she's been compromised over the years. I don't trust her as the bastion of morality that she was held up to be, she's a quitter, and she's been too chummy with the establishment core for a while now. |
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1/21/16 1:57 pm
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Cojak |
The OP could be right. I have no idea. But for some reason I do not see a bug-a-boo behind every tree. I am not a Palin supporter nor Trump, but it seems there would be a better way to show the support than encouraging, 'hiring', Palin to smooth up to Trump.
They could have leaked more stuff to the press like they did when they had the idea that they had better 'Kill' (politically) Trump. That worked real well, showing their ignorance. 
(PS warning do not misspell Palin, you get 'Pain' as an auto fix!  )
Might be prophetic......
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1/21/16 2:17 pm
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UncleJD |
| Cojak wrote: | | But for some reason I do not see a bug-a-boo behind every tree. |
ok, there may not be, but I see way too much power and money at stake to not expect the worse from them. Even Cruz, as much as I like him, I can't help but think his relationship with Goldman-Sachs is a little too cozy. I hope that's just circumstantial though. |
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1/21/16 2:26 pm
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bonnie knox |
Saying that Palin's run with McCain "calls her into question" is just silly. She was chosen as the more conservative outsider to fire up the base and appeal to the populist vote.
I don't think that her endorsement of Trump was orchestrated by the "establishment." I think she is seeing the opportunity to as one person worded it, stay politically relevant. Perhaps she is hoping for a post such as Secretary of Energy or something.
| UncleJD wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | you're right Bonnie, there is no establishment in the major parties, they are all just really nice neutral parties with no internal agenda to preserve their power |
When have I ever said there is no establishment????
What I'm trying to figure out about your statement is why you think Palin is controlled by the establishment or if you think Palin is the establishment.
I part ways with Palin in her endorsement of Trump, but I've never seen her as part of the establishment or as controlled by the establishment. |
sorry if I got you wrong. Bob Dole is clearly in the neo-con establishment camp and always has been, Palin ran with McCain the poster-boy of everything wrong with the Republican party which calls her into question, she has got along with the leadership ever since, she's sort of their tea-party pacifier card. Her support came out at or about the same time as Bob Dole's which I find disturbing, she was known to support Ted Cruz 4 years ago and now this? I think she's been compromised over the years. I don't trust her as the bastion of morality that she was held up to be, she's a quitter, and she's been too chummy with the establishment core for a while now. |
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1/22/16 7:05 am
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Dave Dorsey |
I don't think the GOP establishment has chosen Trump, and I don't think the establishment has any sway or control over Palin. I think the establishment is currently enjoying a marriage of convenience with Palin and other Tea Party folks, even though the Tea Party folks don't realize it.
The establishment hates both Cruz and Trump, but the bottom line is that they know Trump poses no long-term threat to them whatsoever, and they know Cruz poses an existential threat to them.
Cruz is firmly philosophically and legally grounded in conservatism, and he has demonstrated a capacity to calmly and convincingly explain those positions to others. The establishment knows Cruz wants to shrink the size of the federal government, while Trump only wants to put a new leader at the head of the current federal beast. Cruz has the potential to ignite a Reagan-esque awakening in the Republican party and drive establishment politicians out of office for a generation. Trump will be a four year nuisance if he is elected, but both during his term and afterward it will be business as usual for the Washington elite. |
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1/22/16 7:20 am
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UncleJD |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | I don't think the GOP establishment has chosen Trump, and I don't think the establishment has any sway or control over Palin. I think the establishment is currently enjoying a marriage of convenience with Palin and other Tea Party folks, even though the Tea Party folks don't realize it.
The establishment hates both Cruz and Trump, but the bottom line is that they know Trump poses no long-term threat to them whatsoever, and they know Cruz poses an existential threat to them.
Cruz is firmly philosophically and legally grounded in conservatism, and he has demonstrated a capacity to calmly and convincingly explain those positions to others. The establishment knows Cruz wants to shrink the size of the federal government, while Trump only wants to put a new leader at the head of the current federal beast. Cruz has the potential to ignite a Reagan-esque awakening in the Republican party and drive establishment politicians out of office for a generation. Trump will be a four year nuisance if he is elected, but both during his term and afterward it will be business as usual for the Washington elite. |
I agree, a "marriage of convenience" is a better way to put it. I know Palin is the pin-up-girl of conservatism but she has been used to bring conservatives on board before (whether she was willingly used or conveniently, doesn't matter). I know the establishment didn't want Trump, they wanted Bush, Christie or Rubio, but they've seen the writing on the wall and like all of us, have to choose. Trump is obviously more easily influenced by power and praise (look how he's gloating over the establishment lining up behind him). Here's a video I watched this morning that gives Cruz's take on it.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/01/21/cruz-a-vote-for-trump-is-a-vote-for-cronyism-and-bailouts-video/ |
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1/22/16 9:18 am
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Dave Dorsey |
Yes, in a sense you're right that the establishment is "choosing" Trump as the lesser of two evils for them.
Another point of support for your argument about how Trump is easily influenced by praise is his obsession with the polls. I can't think of any candidate or leader in history who has been so obsessed with polls. I'm sure most all of them are, but the rest have the good sense not to constantly talk about their obsession.
I also completely agree about Palin. She may be the conservative darling, but social issues are the only thing about which she is consistently conservative. She has always been much more of a populist when it comes to fiscal issues. I don't think she is very conservative at all. |
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1/22/16 9:33 am
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| Wow, this is escalating quickly |
UncleJD |
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| Re: Wow, this is escalating quickly |
Dave Dorsey |
| UncleJD wrote: | | The RNC has denounced conservative bastion The National Review in favor of Trump. Remember where you heard it first. |
I was thinking this morning in the shower (I know that everyone is very interested in what I was thinking in the shower) that in many ways true conservatives (I'll define this term in a bit so as to avoid a no true Scotsman fallacy) are now in the same position William F. Buckley was in when he started National Review.
Buckley famously stood "athwart history yelling stop". True conservatives, conservatives who are conservative because they have thought through the philosophy of what they believe, now stand athwart history yelling the same, but they are not yelling at the seemingly inexorable tide of progressivism led by liberals and communists; they are yelling it at what now seems to be an inexorable tide of populism and statism led by members of their own party.
I decided my days in the Republican party were finally done when Palin endorsed Trump. If I had any doubt, and I didn't, the actions of the GOP over the last two days would have eliminated it. |
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1/22/16 10:32 am
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Kevin Walker |
It doesn't look like Trump performs very well in a general election.
| Quote: | | Sanders leads Trump by 15 points nationally over Trump, 54 percent to 39 percent, while Clinton's advantage over Trump is 10 points, 51 percent to 41 percent. |
| Source: NBC News
Cruz polls better, Rubio polls best.
To me, Rubio is the best candidate, and he will be getting my vote in the primaries. I'm still holding out hope that others feel the same way and that he gets the nomination. |
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1/22/16 11:04 am
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UncleJD |
| Kevin Walker wrote: | It doesn't look like Trump performs very well in a general election.
| Quote: | | Sanders leads Trump by 15 points nationally over Trump, 54 percent to 39 percent, while Clinton's advantage over Trump is 10 points, 51 percent to 41 percent. |
| Source: NBC News
Cruz polls better, Rubio polls best.
To me, Rubio is the best candidate, and he will be getting my vote in the primaries. I'm still holding out hope that others feel the same way and that he gets the nomination. |
Sorry, but that is why Trump will be the nominee. The RNC has consolidated behind Trump because they know its time to choose between him and Cruz. I wish the rest of us knew that. I'd rather have Rubio than Trump as well, but that's not the choice in my opinion. |
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1/22/16 11:13 am
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UncleJD |
This pretty much lead every news story this morning (meet the press, etc..). It is now fairly well established if not proven. Now the only question remaining is whether the establishment/RNC is backing Trump for good, or are they trying to play a game to lift Rubio or Bush through the rift between Trump and Cruz, or some underhanded move at the convention.
One thing for sure is that they absolutely hate Ted Cruz because he won't go along to get along with them.
Last edited by UncleJD on 1/24/16 11:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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1/24/16 11:07 am
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John Jett |
| I saw that this morning too |
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Posts: 4955
1/24/16 11:28 am
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