Actscelerate.com

Drs. Land and Williams on Spiritual Warfare (Excellent) (L)

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/9/15 10:57 pm**

http://vimeo.com/116201970

Dr. Mark Williams and Dr. Steve Land discuss many things that have been discussed on Actscelerate recently--are they reading this forum, perhaps?

The 15 minutes it takes you to watch this video will be well spent.

I am greatly anticipating their follow-up session to this!

Meat Word

Bound By Beaulah Posts: 1003 **1/10/15 8:29 am**

Any time you hear Dr. Mark Williams you will get the "MEAT" of the Word of God! I could not imagine sitting under him for years, the depth of the Word of God you would get! Great Word!
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Ronnie Lingerfelt A/K/A 4 golf.

One other thing.

Bound By Beaulah Posts: 1003 **1/10/15 8:40 am**

Dr Land lost me when he said; Poor Apostle Paul didn't know the secret to Spiritual warfare! Just rebuke it and not receive it! I have heard that before and just rebuking sickness don't "ALWAYS" lead to it going away! I have heard that before and that is not sound doctrine! I wonder id Apostle paul right before they where about to cut his head off said; I rebuke that axe, it don't have the power to cut off my head! Sometimes bad things happen to good, Godly people who walk in "True" holiness! To always try to give a explanation and a reason is futile! No body much today wants to say; "I don't know why things are happening"!! I am walking with God and His Word, but things happen, we live in a fallen world and we will never know until we walk into heaven! I would love to hear more Pentecostals say that than trying to give a excat answer!
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Ronnie Lingerfelt A/K/A 4 golf.

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1449 **1/10/15 11:35 am**

So we have one that says that Dr. Land does not portray sound doctrine. Is this an attack on a COG official? What does OTCP have to say on the part about rebuking sickness? Dr. Land speaks a little like what Brad would say.

Does the COG believe "some" of the WOF message?

Why would Dr. Mark Wiliams want Dr. Land on his program if he thought his doctrine was out of line?

My personal opinion is that this video is wonderful.

Re: One other thing.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/10/15 11:42 am**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **1/10/15 12:00 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **1/10/15 12:03 pm**

oops. I was reviewing the tape and typing my response while Quiet Wyatt was typing his. I didn't mean to sound like an echo.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/10/15 1:31 pm**

Is there an echo in here? Wink

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/10/15 1:33 pm**

Seriously though, I appreciate the mutual confirmation, Bonnie!

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **1/10/15 2:05 pm**

Listen to it again.

Bound By Beaulah Posts: 1003 **1/10/15 9:12 pm**

I went back and listen to it again and I din NOT hear Dr. land say that other believed that. All I heard is that he made what I stated he said. He may have made it in sarcasim remark, but you need to make your point CLEAR! All I know is what I heard. I do not know Dr. Land, just like a lot who will hear this and a lot will come away with the same conclusion I did!
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Ronnie Lingerfelt A/K/A 4 golf.

Re: Listen to it again.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **1/10/15 9:46 pm**

Re: Listen to it again.

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **1/10/15 9:50 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/12/15 10:59 am**

One thing I have noticed about Dr. Land is that he sometimes talks a bit too fast to be understood clearly, and sometimes his sarcasm is difficult to catch. I think both are just aspects of his personality. I think a transcript of these Faith Matters sessions would be helpful.

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1449 **1/12/15 1:10 pm**

So no rebuking of evil spirits in the COG? Things have changed over the years. Rolling Eyes

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/12/15 1:41 pm**

In context, Dr. Land was simply and only saying that there are some things you can't just rebuke; you have to fight, like the wild beasts at Ephesus Paul fought, or endure with grace, like Paul's thorn in the flesh. He did not say or imply that we could never exert authority over demons.

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **1/14/15 1:02 am**

I definitely believe there is a place for rebuking spirits. I think we all agree. Is that really what the video said?

Maybe he's reacting to some of the extremes that have been taught. There are people who have rented an airplane to fly around a mountain range rebuking the powers of the air. Do you have to get up there to rebuke them better or to cover more territory?

There are people who think you should rebuke all the spirits of murder out of a city and the murder goes away. Then they rebuke the spirit of alcoholism to make the alcoholism go away.

The weird thing to me is if people think there is a spirit, as in an individual demon, for any problem they can name. I heard someone rebuke the 'spirit of traffic jams.' If the traffic jams in Jakarta were spirits, I might just hit the pedal to the metal and drive through them like smoke.

If there is a spirit that causes people's arms to get cut, if the spirit goes away, won't the cut remain? It's like if you take a nail out of a tire, the hole is still in the tire. You need to patch up the cut or the tire. The cut needs to heal. The tire needs to be repaired. If the cut gets healed supernaturally, that's great. If it happens slower, that's fine, too.

Removing the demon from someone's live may not cure all their problems. If a pornography addict has a demonic stronghold and it gets rebuked off of him, he still has to choose not to look at pornography. If a drunkard has a demon that influences him and it gets cast off, he still needs to choose not to drink. And people in these situations need to grow steadily in the word, have daily encouragement and exhortation from believers, and to pray individually and corporately and receive prayer from others.

The way I figure it, there are people out there who are probably bad enough to kill people or steal your wallet even if there aren't any demons in town bothering them. I don't think this will get rid of crime even if it works. There is still the world and the flesh even if the devil were to go away for a while.

But Jesus said if an unclean spirit goes out of a man he walks through dry places seeking rest and finding none. Then he returns to the place and finds it empty swept and garnished. Then he gets seven others worse than himself and enters into the man again. It's a parable about that generation, but how would this work if you rebuke all the demons out of a city? So you rebuke the murder spirits out, and if the murder rate dips, what happens if the demons come back with reinforcements?

One of the passages used about spiritual warfare is about pulling down strongholds, but Paul's talking about casting down imaginations and every high thought that exalts itself against the knowledge of Christ. Paul went around preaching and teaching, talking, and reasoning with people, and he'd present them the word of God. That's how he cast down imaginations, with the word of God, not with yelling at demons.

I believe preaching and teaching the word are 'spiritual warfare', too.
Another warning on this comes from Jude and II Peter 2. The false brethren and false teachers are not afraid to blaspheme/speak evil of dignitaries. The example Jude gives of this is Satan. Michael is more powerful than Satan, but doesn't bring a railing accusation against him before the Lord, but says, "The Lord rebuke you." Yet the false teachers aren't afraid to blaspheme dignitaries.

I'm not saying that everyone in the spiritual warfare movement is a false brother or anything like that. But it is interesting that the ones in the Bible who were outspoken in their verbal attacks against such beings were these wicked men, and we shouldn't imitate their example. Even in talking to Satan, we need to have some limitations. Michael did.

Jesus rebuked the Devil with scripture and said to Peter, 'Get thee behind Me Satan.'
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Link

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **1/14/15 3:06 am**

Dr. Land didn't say there was never a place/time/incident/etc to rebuke spirits, he was speaking of specific instances.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **1/14/15 12:52 pm**