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 Re: Hagin said it was a lack of faith to pray "If if be thy will" or "your will be done" |
philunderwood |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | He said Jesus told him all a feller has gotta do is:
ASK
BELIEVE
RECEIVE |
You are INCORRECT! I had a front row seat and he EMPHATICALLY taught that it was improper to pray that WHEN you had Scripture that revealed God's will. He also started the school year, every year, with a ONE WEEK seminar to rein in the loony ideas that it was Carte Blanche to try to use prayer to get what you want. The name of the seminar was "Faith, Foolishness or Presumption?" He taught, you must have the Word (Scripture) before you can have faith. You cannot just have 'faith' for something because you want it. In fact, he was always use this specific word when talking about that idea.... He would say it is ERROR.
If we do ever answer to God, and I know He has a few things on me, I believe you are going to be standing right beside me (or I hope you are) when, after He scalds me for my stupidity, He grabs you by the ears for your railing against and maligning some of His called and anointed servants. I know my take on things has no impact or weight or gravity with you, but your tactics scare me for you.
You can't leave well enough alone and, further, using this forum to cast your vomit about your pet peeve doctrines and purveyors of similar sorts of beliefs is not really having any effect on the big picture or changing anything. You do not have the spiritual authority, especially hiding under a pseudonym, to correct diddly-squat.
I'm sure I'd enjoy you as a person if this incessant dribble you spew in the name of righteousness and purity did not cloud my vision. 99% of everything you post is against something. Give it a rest for a year and just post what you DO believe instead of what you don't...or, laud your own degrees, accolades, certifications, ordinations and little league trophies instead of giving a hoot about who gets a $5 diploma. Who gives a rip? I feel like taking up an offering just to buy you one so you have it.
Okay, I am finished. Goodnight all. Sleep well.
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Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3954
9/21/16 10:42 pm
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| Re: Gods Will.. |
philunderwood |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | renewal wrote: |
The reason is clear. people do not believe it can be done here.
Think of what would happen if all the believers prayed this prayer and really believe. |
OK, hypothetically I'm conductin Bro John Doe's funeral, a man of God, served the Lord for 50+ years.
"Thank you for being here today as we honor the lack of faith of this saint of God. If he had believed he would be alive today. But he didn't. Poor fellers." |
Such a crock of an illustration. We are still waiting on your research to accompany your slights.
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Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3954
9/21/16 10:58 pm
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| Re: Hagin said it was a lack of faith to pray "If if be thy will" or "your will be done" |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| philunderwood wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | He said Jesus told him all a feller has gotta do is:
ASK
BELIEVE
RECEIVE |
You are INCORRECT! I had a front row seat and he EMPHATICALLY taught that it was improper to pray that WHEN you had Scripture that revealed God's will. He also started the school year, every year, with a ONE WEEK seminar to rein in the loony ideas that it was Carte Blanche to try to use prayer to get what you want. The name of the seminar was "Faith, Foolishness or Presumption?" He taught, you must have the Word (Scripture) before you can have faith. You cannot just have 'faith' for something because you want it. In fact, he was always use this specific word when talking about that idea.... He would say it is ERROR.
If we do ever answer to God, and I know He has a few things on me, I believe you are going to be standing right beside me (or I hope you are) when, after He scalds me for my stupidity, He grabs you by the ears for your railing against and maligning some of His called and anointed servants. I know my take on things has no impact or weight or gravity with you, but your tactics scare me for you.
You can't leave well enough alone and, further, using this forum to cast your vomit about your pet peeve doctrines and purveyors of similar sorts of beliefs is not really having any effect on the big picture or changing anything. You do not have the spiritual authority, especially hiding under a pseudonym, to correct diddly-squat.
I'm sure I'd enjoy you as a person if this incessant dribble you spew in the name of righteousness and purity did not cloud my vision. 99% of everything you post is against something. Give it a rest for a year and just post what you DO believe instead of what you don't...or, laud your own degrees, accolades, certifications, ordinations and little league trophies instead of giving a hoot about who gets a $5 diploma. Who gives a rip? I feel like taking up an offering just to buy you one so you have it. |
As Ray Hughes often said while moderating the General Assembly, let me respond seriatim:
1. The primary sources (i.e., Hagin's written and often plagiarized material) reveal a different story, Phil. Yes, Hagin used Scripture; however, much of it was incorrectly interpreted.
2. OTCP aint never proclaimed he had any spiritual authority, I simply, like Paul, state what the good Book says. An like Paul, Peter, James, Jude, etc., hey, I expose erroneous views/perceptions/interpretations. It's called apologetics.
3. OTCP has no degrees, accolades, certifications, or ordinations to laud. So that would be a waste a time an all. Hey, I did play little league though, but I didn't git no trophy. Does at count?
4. As fer settin on the front row or bein a alumnus a Rhema, hey, I would think twice, then twice more, for voicin any braggin rights, Phil. I think I'd mail at diploma back to Tulsa, tell em to take me outta their database as a alumnus, then matriculate into a credible balanced program of study. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
9/22/16 5:32 am
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| Phil |
brotherjames |
you have wonderfully expressed nearly verbatim my feelings as well. Give it a rest OTCP. You are NOT the purveyor of all knowledge nor righteousness. And I still think this is an appropriate scripture re: WOF people
Mar 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
Mar 9:41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
Hey Phil   |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
9/22/16 1:22 pm
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| Phil...AMEN! |
Aaron Scott |
| From what I have read and heard from Hagin, he was NEVER given to the foolishness that OTCP states. Never! |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
9/22/16 1:28 pm
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| Re: Hagin said it was a lack of faith to pray "If if be thy will" or "your will be done" |
Aaron Scott |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | philunderwood wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | He said Jesus told him all a feller has gotta do is:
ASK
BELIEVE
RECEIVE |
You are INCORRECT! I had a front row seat and he EMPHATICALLY taught that it was improper to pray that WHEN you had Scripture that revealed God's will. He also started the school year, every year, with a ONE WEEK seminar to rein in the loony ideas that it was Carte Blanche to try to use prayer to get what you want. The name of the seminar was "Faith, Foolishness or Presumption?" He taught, you must have the Word (Scripture) before you can have faith. You cannot just have 'faith' for something because you want it. In fact, he was always use this specific word when talking about that idea.... He would say it is ERROR.
If we do ever answer to God, and I know He has a few things on me, I believe you are going to be standing right beside me (or I hope you are) when, after He scalds me for my stupidity, He grabs you by the ears for your railing against and maligning some of His called and anointed servants. I know my take on things has no impact or weight or gravity with you, but your tactics scare me for you.
You can't leave well enough alone and, further, using this forum to cast your vomit about your pet peeve doctrines and purveyors of similar sorts of beliefs is not really having any effect on the big picture or changing anything. You do not have the spiritual authority, especially hiding under a pseudonym, to correct diddly-squat.
I'm sure I'd enjoy you as a person if this incessant dribble you spew in the name of righteousness and purity did not cloud my vision. 99% of everything you post is against something. Give it a rest for a year and just post what you DO believe instead of what you don't...or, laud your own degrees, accolades, certifications, ordinations and little league trophies instead of giving a hoot about who gets a $5 diploma. Who gives a rip? I feel like taking up an offering just to buy you one so you have it. |
As Ray Hughes often said while moderating the General Assembly, let me respond seriatim:
1. The primary sources (i.e., Hagin's written and often plagiarized material) reveal a different story, Phil. Yes, Hagin used Scripture; however, much of it was incorrectly interpreted.
2. OTCP aint never proclaimed he had any spiritual authority, I simply, like Paul, state what the good Book says. An like Paul, Peter, James, Jude, etc., hey, I expose erroneous views/perceptions/interpretations. It's called apologetics.
3. OTCP has no degrees, accolades, certifications, or ordinations to laud. So that would be a waste a time an all. Hey, I did play little league though, but I didn't git no trophy. Does at count?
4. As fer settin on the front row or bein a alumnus a Rhema, hey, I would think twice, then twice more, for voicin any braggin rights, Phil. I think I'd mail at diploma back to Tulsa, tell em to take me outta their database as a alumnus, then matriculate into a credible balanced program of study. |
No, the primary sources DO NOT reveal what you say. Of course, if taken utterly out of context, even the Bible can be twisted into your cessation-lite. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
9/22/16 1:30 pm
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Stay Strong |
| Hagin had all kinds of issues. Of course we don't have to pray his will be done, but not because of what he says, it's because God's will is done regardless of what we desire. In many cases, though, what we want and what God has planned don't line up. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 226
9/22/16 2:20 pm
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philunderwood |
| Quote: | | 1. The primary sources (i.e., Hagin's written and often plagiarized material) reveal a different story, Phil. Yes, Hagin used Scripture; however, much of it was incorrectly interpreted. |
And again you miss an opportunity to reveal your "research."
| Quote: | | 2. OTCP aint never proclaimed he had any spiritual authority, I simply, like Paul, state what the good Book says. An like Paul, Peter, James, Jude, etc., hey, I expose erroneous views/perceptions/interpretations. It's called apologetics. |
Well, if you do NOT claim 'spiritual authority' it is even a MORE IMPORTANT reason to sit down and quit espousing your views. No one should even attempt to sway someone or discredit someone outside of an authoritative anointing given by manifestation of, or revelation by, the Holy Spirit.
Paul and those other brothers were filled with great authority of the Spirit.
Further, resign your church immediately if your statement is true. I have NO AUTHORITY AT ALL outside of any spiritual authority given me by ordination and anointing. It causes me greater fear for you if this is true.
| Quote: | | 3. OTCP has no degrees, accolades, certifications, or ordinations to laud. So that would be a waste a time an all. Hey, I did play little league though, but I didn't git no trophy. Does at count? |
Wow, if not, go back to school and at least graduate from something. There should be no reason to have such an enormous disdain of honorary or brokered diplomas and degrees. It just should not matter, and for the life of me, I cannot imagine why it does matter. Who gives a rip? The proof of the pudding is in the eating not the label on the package. Either an individual is effective or they are not effective, regardless of an earned or unearned piece of parchment.
| Quote: | | 4. As fer settin on the front row or bein a alumnus a Rhema, hey, I would think twice, then twice more, for voicin any braggin rights, Phil. I think I'd mail at diploma back to Tulsa, tell em to take me outta their database as a alumnus, then matriculate into a credible balanced program of study. |
Nope. I will take credit for my time there. There, I even sat under an Ordained Bishop in the Church of God, former state overseer and amazingly effective pastor in Georgia and elsewhere as one of my instructors. And, hey, they even called him "Doc" before Doc was cool.
_________________
Live an epiK life!
Discover More...
http://www.refocusing.org
A Mission in Formation
www.bluewaterinthekeys.com |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3954
9/22/16 2:41 pm
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| Re: OTCP and Eddie... |
Methocostal |
I'm sorry, but if HEALING is "always God's will", then people would never die. If you define healing as most people do today. If you recognize that "healing" could be in the form of dying, then indeed it is probably God's will for all to be healed.
Did not Jesus say, "it is appointed for man to die". Wouldn't that contradict the concept that God's will is to always heal in the physical sense as I suspect Hagin was espousing? Or are you saying only two people had enough faith to escape death and Jesus himself lacked the faith?
| Aaron Scott wrote: | I'm pretty sure that Hagin didn't forget the Jesus' prayer in the Garden. And OTCP, without any context, throws that out there because, clearly, it will run afoul of Jesus' prayer in the Garden.
I don't know, but I imagine that Hagin prefaced this with some sort of statement about how HEALING, say, is always God's will, and was not giving some unlimited statement about never praying for God's will to be done. |
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Friendly Face
Posts: 496
9/22/16 4:40 pm
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| Re: OTCP and Eddie... |
Methocostal |
I'm sorry, but if HEALING is "always God's will", then people would never die. If you define healing as most people do today. If you recognize that "healing" could be in the form of dying, then indeed it is probably God's will for all to be healed.
Did not Jesus say, "it is appointed for man to die". Wouldn't that contradict the concept that God's will is to always heal in the physical sense as I suspect Hagin was espousing? Or are you saying only two people had enough faith to escape death and Jesus himself lacked the faith?
| Aaron Scott wrote: | I'm pretty sure that Hagin didn't forget the Jesus' prayer in the Garden. And OTCP, without any context, throws that out there because, clearly, it will run afoul of Jesus' prayer in the Garden.
I don't know, but I imagine that Hagin prefaced this with some sort of statement about how HEALING, say, is always God's will, and was not giving some unlimited statement about never praying for God's will to be done. |
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Friendly Face
Posts: 496
9/22/16 4:45 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | Did not Jesus say, "it is appointed for man to die". |
The writer of Hebrews did.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
9/22/16 5:17 pm
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| Methcostal... |
Aaron Scott |
| Methocostal wrote: | I'm sorry, but if HEALING is "always God's will", then people would never die. If you define healing as most people do today. If you recognize that "healing" could be in the form of dying, then indeed it is probably God's will for all to be healed.
Did not Jesus say, "it is appointed for man to die". Wouldn't that contradict the concept that God's will is to always heal in the physical sense as I suspect Hagin was espousing? Or are you saying only two people had enough faith to escape death and Jesus himself lacked the faith?
| Aaron Scott wrote: | I'm pretty sure that Hagin didn't forget the Jesus' prayer in the Garden. And OTCP, without any context, throws that out there because, clearly, it will run afoul of Jesus' prayer in the Garden.
I don't know, but I imagine that Hagin prefaced this with some sort of statement about how HEALING, say, is always God's will, and was not giving some unlimited statement about never praying for God's will to be done. |
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Methcostal...consider that "God is not willing that any perish." But will some perish? To say that is always God's will to heal does not mean that everyone will be healed. It means, rather, that just as it is always God's will for people to be saved, so, too, is it His will to be healed. Does that mean everyone will be saved or healed? No. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
9/22/16 8:41 pm
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