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 Thank you all |
Mark Hardgrove |
By the way, I appreciate the discussion from everyone on this thread. I think that while we can passionately disagree, we can be civil. I would not, and will not, think less of you as a person or a Christian if you vote for Romney, Ron Paul, Newt, or even Obama. It is your right to vote, or not vote, and it is between you and God how you exercise it.
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Mark E. Hardgrove, D.Min., Ph.D.
Senior Pastor Conyers Church of God
http://www.conyerscog.org
Dean & VP for Academics at BHU
http://www.beulah.org/ |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 854
1/31/12 12:04 pm
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Cojak |
All I have to say about the coming election is, if this board is a cross section of America today, we are going to have 4 more years of Obama.
The more I look at it, I guess it could be worse. But I was hoping for more USA oil and refineries until we get a good alternate to transportation.
I was hoping to curb spending some how. I do see a little light there. Obama has proposed to eliminate many duplicate efforts in some Departments.
My expectations on Roe v Wade will stay the same, there will be NO CHANGE no matter who is in, so that seals it for many. they just won't vote.
I was hoping for a more logical approach to healthcare. None of the health care stuff affects me, but it does my sons and Grandkids.
I was hoping NBF's Christian would get in and send 15 Billion to TBN so we can pay off the National Debt. (BTW that is the most logical thing on the debt I have seen, if we can get the 'guarantee' along with it.)
I am disappointed in some of my brothers' approaches, but they are in mine also, so since we are in this boat together, we will sing as we sink or float.
The end did not come when JFK go in.
The end did not come when Carter was elected.
The end did not come with Obama as some on here predicted.
So I am sitting back enjoying my life, and I will enjoy 4 more of the same if it comes to that. After all, God will put in whom He wants, who would not be satisfied with that?
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
1/31/12 12:41 pm
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| Re: Once Again |
InspiredHillbilly |
| Tracy S Hamilton wrote: | | Mark Hardgrove wrote: | FNB you are building strawmen and then tearing them down. That is considered bad form in serious debate. We're not talking about TBN or Word of Faith people, if we cross that bridge we can discuss it. We're not talking about hypotheticals, but about real possibilities. Work with me here.
I respect everyone's right to vote for Romney and yes, we can still be friends. I may think you are wrong, and you may think I'm wrong. I love America! I am just expressing my own reasons for not wanting to vote for Romney. |
Agreed, I cannot say that the Bible is my standard for living and then vote for someone who is diametrically opposed to it. None of the candidates will be 100% toward the Bible, but which one is closer to certain values that I believe reflect the heart of God.
If I vote for someone who is basically against everything that I say I believe in, then it tells me that the place that gives me my values (Bible) isn't worth the paper it's written on.
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I have read this forum for a long time, and used to be a poster many moons ago... most of the time I don't see things the same as Pastor Hamilton, but I have to say that this is one of the best posts he's ever made. Said it so much better than I ever could. There are times that my actions must be dictated more by my desire to love the Lord my God with my everything, than my desire to see an economy turn around...
I vote on Super Tuesday, and will vote for Santorum in the Primary. If my guy doesn't get the nomination, then I will have to face the reality, I may not be able to vote for either of the two major candidates in the general election.
Last time I voted my conscience and voted Chuck Baldwin from the Constitution party, and I'm prepared to do that again. Some may say I'm voting for Obama indirectly, or throwing my vote away, but I've got to be able to look myself in the mirror the next morning with a clear consience before God.
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Rev. C. Todd Robbins
Evangelist - Emmanuel Churches of Christ
The Greatest Risk... is the Risk of Regret... |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2118
1/31/12 1:14 pm
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John Jett |
| The day is coming, and it may be here already, that there will not be a candidate with a chance of winning that is really what we would call a Bible-believing Christian. What then? Wouldn't you still vote for whichever candidate will foster an environment that is still friendly to Christians? Do you just not vote and ignore the sacrifices of the founding generation? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4955
1/31/12 1:20 pm
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| Good word Hillbilly |
Mark Hardgrove |
I too am a hillbilly from deep in the hills of WV. You are spot on. If the only vote we have in the general election is between Baal and Molech, I won't vote for either. I'll vote for Santorum in the primary and see what happens in the general election.
_________________
Mark E. Hardgrove, D.Min., Ph.D.
Senior Pastor Conyers Church of God
http://www.conyerscog.org
Dean & VP for Academics at BHU
http://www.beulah.org/ |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 854
1/31/12 1:20 pm
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| Re: Once Again |
Nature Boy Florida |
| Tracy S Hamilton wrote: | | Mark Hardgrove wrote: | FNB you are building strawmen and then tearing them down. That is considered bad form in serious debate. We're not talking about TBN or Word of Faith people, if we cross that bridge we can discuss it. We're not talking about hypotheticals, but about real possibilities. Work with me here.
I respect everyone's right to vote for Romney and yes, we can still be friends. I may think you are wrong, and you may think I'm wrong. I love America! I am just expressing my own reasons for not wanting to vote for Romney. |
Agreed, I cannot say that the Bible is my standard for living and then vote for someone who is diametrically opposed to it. None of the candidates will be 100% toward the Bible, but which one is closer to certain values that I believe reflect the heart of God.
If I vote for someone who is basically against everything that I say I believe in, then it tells me that the place that gives me my values (Bible) isn't worth the paper it's written on.
Just my opinion,
Tracy |
There is merit in your opinion Tracy - and if Herman Cain had been the man I thought he was - he would have my vote today.
Unfortunately, he wasn't - and he was forced to drop out.
All the remaining candidates say they are pro-life.
However, Romney's views on the sanctity of marriage are closer to mine than Gingrich's - even if for the wrong reason.
Romney's wife was the only wife (even though they were all here except Santorums) that submitted to an interview on the local media. She said when she got MS and when she later got cancer - Mitt stopped everything he was involved in to take care of her - until she could emotionally and physically make it on her own. He is only running this time because he got her approval that she was up to it. They have raised great children. He rules his house well. Again - even if for the wrong reason - he is doing right.
I would rather have a guy that does the right thing (even if for the wrong reason) than a guy that knows all the right reasons - yet still does the wrong thing.
That was my deciding factor.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
1/31/12 4:08 pm
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| NBF |
Cojak |
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| Re: Once Again |
Tracy S Hamilton |
| InspiredHillbilly wrote: | | Tracy S Hamilton wrote: | | Mark Hardgrove wrote: | FNB you are building strawmen and then tearing them down. That is considered bad form in serious debate. We're not talking about TBN or Word of Faith people, if we cross that bridge we can discuss it. We're not talking about hypotheticals, but about real possibilities. Work with me here.
I respect everyone's right to vote for Romney and yes, we can still be friends. I may think you are wrong, and you may think I'm wrong. I love America! I am just expressing my own reasons for not wanting to vote for Romney. |
Agreed, I cannot say that the Bible is my standard for living and then vote for someone who is diametrically opposed to it. None of the candidates will be 100% toward the Bible, but which one is closer to certain values that I believe reflect the heart of God.
If I vote for someone who is basically against everything that I say I believe in, then it tells me that the place that gives me my values (Bible) isn't worth the paper it's written on.
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I have read this forum for a long time, and used to be a poster many moons ago... most of the time I don't see things the same as Pastor Hamilton, but I have to say that this is one of the best posts he's ever made. Said it so much better than I ever could. There are times that my actions must be dictated more by my desire to love the Lord my God with my everything, than my desire to see an economy turn around...
I vote on Super Tuesday, and will vote for Santorum in the Primary. If my guy doesn't get the nomination, then I will have to face the reality, I may not be able to vote for either of the two major candidates in the general election.
Last time I voted my conscience and voted Chuck Baldwin from the Constitution party, and I'm prepared to do that again. Some may say I'm voting for Obama indirectly, or throwing my vote away, but I've got to be able to look myself in the mirror the next morning with a clear consience before God. |
InspiredHillbilly,
I am deeply hurt that you didn't see things my way most of the time.... lol
Seriously, this is one of those things that I have a strong feeling about. |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2714
1/31/12 7:06 pm
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| Re: More Mormon Stuff |
Link |
| Mark Hardgrove wrote: |
Joseph Smith A Polygamist...An Adulterer...and A Pedophile Joseph Smith had 33 wives! He married several who were married to other men." Nancy Marinda Johnson married Joseph Smith while her husband, Orson Hyde, was on a mission to Jerusalem." Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner, the wife of Adam Lightner, said that Joseph claimed an "angel" came with a "drawn sword" and told him that if
he did not enter into polygamy "he would slay him."
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I read he started this polygamous relationship after seeing an angel with a 'flaming sword.'
Do Mormons allow for polygamy now if there is the threat of a flaming sword?
Brigham young may have been worse. Smith 'married' another man's wife. Later, Brigham Young told the man that the wife was now his since he inherited Joseph's position, and sent the man away on a mission. Smith was secret about it, though. He'd secretly 'marry' women while he had their husbands off on a mission. I wonder if that's why the Mormons started gravitating to sending unmarried men off on missions.
I read that, at one point, a group of people, Mormons I suppose, just about convinced the local doctor to castrate Joseph over a situation with someone's daughter.
My guess is that Joseph was a lot more like Warren Jeffs than a lot of respectable Mormon leaders who persecute guys like that.
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Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
2/1/12 1:37 pm
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Wesley Duncan |
| Some on this board are convinved that "God is in Control." If God is in control why are we complaining about what God is or not doing. The American people are responsibile for choosing the people who are running out country. The idea that If I can't vote for the person I want I am not going to vote is partially the blame for where we are today. God can do what God wants to do. But God hasn't been voting over the last several presidential elections unless He has voted to make our lives miserable. God answers intelligent prayers, and just maybe, God would intervene if Christians would vote intelligently. Read and Learn as much as we can about the candidates and actually make a commitment and go vote. If one doesn't vote, the that one should not complain with the outcome. Pray, Fast, Seek God, Bombard Heaven, but for the sake of our children and grandchildren and for the Church of the Living God, VOTE!!! iN THE Beginning God created man from dust of the earth, but since then He has used People to do His bidding. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 490
2/2/12 9:47 am
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| Re: Another against vote? |
Pastors Friend |
| DrDuck wrote: | | The first presidential vote I ever cast was to vote against John Kennedy. I have voted in every presidential election since and in most of them have been forced to cast a vote against some candidate. Now 2012 seems to be shaping up to be another against vote. If Newt cannot survive, at least may the Lord give Santorum a miracle. He has not been my first choice but I could feel good about voting for him in the general election. |
I believe Santorum to be the most viable contender. We have not heard the last of him in future elections. He just does not have the funding he needs. It is sad that money talks while good sense walks. But according to Ec. 10:19,
money is the answer to all things. I will vote for a repented adulter before I would a Mormon due to the insanity of his doctrine. Mitt was a Mormon pastor, SO, he does know what Mormons believe!
PF |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1345
2/3/12 12:39 am
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| Re: Another against vote? |
Link |
[quote="Pastors Friend"] | DrDuck wrote: | I will vote for a repented adulter before I would a Mormon due to the insanity of his doctrine. Mitt was a Mormon pastor, SO, he does know what Mormons believe!
PF |
Mitt Romney got as high as a step above Mormon bishop.
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Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
2/4/12 1:16 am
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| I'm Voting |
Mark Hardgrove |
I will vote in the primary-- either Gingrich or Santorum (whichever one has best chance to beat RINO Romney). I'll wait and see what happens in the primary. However, to the question of sovereignty, I believe that Obama is the man God allowed to sit in the White House. Somehow it is all woven into the plan of God.
_________________
Mark E. Hardgrove, D.Min., Ph.D.
Senior Pastor Conyers Church of God
http://www.conyerscog.org
Dean & VP for Academics at BHU
http://www.beulah.org/ |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 854
2/4/12 10:54 am
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| Santorum is the least smelly of them all, but he'll lose |
Rafael D Martinez |
| Pastors Friend wrote: | I believe Santorum to be the most viable contender. We have not heard the last of him in future elections. He just does not have the funding he needs. It is sad that money talks while good sense walks. But according to Ec. 10:19, money is the answer to all things. I will vote for a repented adulter before I would a Mormon due to the insanity of his doctrine. Mitt was a Mormon pastor, SO, he does know what Mormons believe!
PF |
I posted an article on Obama having the aura of the "smooth" about him back in 2007 and basically it summarized how his visceral resonance with voters connected with them at a level that made them feel good about voting for him was what would drive him into the White House.
Mitt's trying to get the same vibe to rock to and Paul, Gingrich and Santorum are dulling his finish, but all of the GOP machinery is now definitely ignoring their ghosts and trying to anoint him with that same "smooth." I think Santorum, of them all, is the best candidate. But he will drop out soon enough.
But Mitt will never fess up to what his cult's insider doctrine teaches, ever. Like all Mormons taught to be careful in their dealings with the "Gentiles" (that is to say, all non LDS), they won't be discussing or defining what their leadership is on record about what the "restored faith" consists of.
He won't discuss what it means about becoming a god, about populating his own planet with goddess wives throughout eternity, about the fact that LDS polygamy as a religious practice was never actually repealed and potentially could be reinstated if the laws of the land were open to it, or that a person's atonement for sin sometimes needs to involve the shedding of their own blood is also still very much alive.
Instead, he'll stick to his talking points, criticize Obama, make 10,000 dollar bets, put poor people in their place, and act like he's a rock solid steely conservative in the caliber of Reagan and who will beat him this fall. Bringing up the weirdness and heresy that Mormonism is simply makes him look like the victim of intolerance in a pluralistic age that will champion his false religion as the moral equivalent of any other. The LDS Church knows this and will squeeze all the mileage it can out of this.
_________________
www.spiritwatch.org
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16
These are trying times. Everyone's trying something and getting caught. The Church Lady, 1987 |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7766
2/5/12 2:11 pm
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| Re: Santorum is the least smelly of them all, but he'll lose |
mytimewillcome |
| Rafael D Martinez wrote: | | Bringing up the weirdness and heresy that Mormonism is simply makes him look like the victim of intolerance in a pluralistic age that will champion his false religion as the moral equivalent of any other. |
Did you know that people who do not believe in infant baptism are historically in the minority?
Did you know that people who do not believe in the consumption of alcohol as a Christian are historically in the minority?
Your branch of Christianity, Rafael, has plenty of "weirdness" when viewed on a worldwide scale. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3658
2/5/12 10:24 pm
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| Sniff sniff .. what was that smell? |
Rafael D Martinez |
| mytimewillcome wrote: |
Your branch of Christianity, Rafael, has plenty of "weirdness" when viewed on a worldwide scale. |
_________________
www.spiritwatch.org
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16
These are trying times. Everyone's trying something and getting caught. The Church Lady, 1987 |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7766
2/5/12 11:26 pm
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| Re: Sniff sniff .. what was that smell? |
mytimewillcome |
| Rafael D Martinez wrote: | | mytimewillcome wrote: |
Your branch of Christianity, Rafael, has plenty of "weirdness" when viewed on a worldwide scale. |
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Typical. Ignore every other opinion but your own.
I'll take your silence to my statements to mean that you have no way to refute them. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3658
2/5/12 11:38 pm
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| you have to have actually made sense |
Rafael D Martinez |
| mytimewillcome wrote: | | Rafael D Martinez wrote: | | mytimewillcome wrote: |
Your branch of Christianity, Rafael, has plenty of "weirdness" when viewed on a worldwide scale. |
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Typical. Ignore every other opinion but your own.
I'll take your silence to my statements to mean that you have no way to refute them. |
to get a refutation .. your "statements" stand alone in their absurdity and no "refutation" is needed
you need some Activia, man
_________________
www.spiritwatch.org
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16
These are trying times. Everyone's trying something and getting caught. The Church Lady, 1987 |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7766
2/6/12 7:29 pm
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| Re: you have to have actually made sense |
mytimewillcome |
| Rafael D Martinez wrote: |
to get a refutation .. your "statements" stand alone in their absurdity and no "refutation" is needed
you need some Activia, man |
Good job, Rafael. You really got me on that one. Keep up the good work my friend.
Activia, lol, you are so funny. "full of poo" reference. Ha. Brilliant. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3658
2/7/12 4:50 pm
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| Re: you have to have actually made sense |
p5harri |
| mytimewillcome wrote: | | Rafael D Martinez wrote: |
to get a refutation .. your "statements" stand alone in their absurdity and no "refutation" is needed
you need some Activia, man |
Good job, Rafael. You really got me on that one. Keep up the good work my friend.
Activia, lol, you are so funny. "full of poo" reference. Ha. Brilliant. |
Just ignore it , I do.
One of my best friends and a constant encouragement to me is LDS. As I have mentioned before on this forum, I have never seen him say of do anything that would make me question his life as a Christian.
Patrick |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1702
2/7/12 5:03 pm
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