| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 |
Quiet Wyatt |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | http://www.pfli.org/faq_oc.html |
I have read that. I'm still not 100% sure of the conclusions. The reason they conclude that all pills are abortifacient is that the pregnancy rates are much lower than the breakthrough ovulation rates. (And how do they come up with the breakthrough ovulation rates, anyway?) I would think they would have to compare that difference to the difference in ovulation and pregnancy rates of someone NOT taking the pill. I'm thinking there are probably some times a fertilized egg does not implant when a woman is not on the pill.
(I don't think there is any question about the "morning after pill" though.) |
After looking at all the solid information we could find about the pill, even though she had been prescribed them for dysfunctional uterine bleeding and terrible periods, my wife and I decided not to continue her on birth control pills. The potential abortifacient issue was a major reason, as well as the numerous health risks involved for my wife.
The Lord saw fit to give us five beautiful babies, which we are hoping will all be a godly influence in this world. Tragically, far too many supposedly Bible-believing Christians seem to think of children more as a burden than as a blessing from God himself. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
11/20/12 2:20 pm
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| |
bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | Let me clarify that I mean oral "contraception" and not abortion as birth control. |
I do (and did) understand what you are saying as far as oral contraceptives. I did not know whom you were referring to as limiting them. (i.e. whether you meant the government making companies cover that in their insurance plans or whether you meant the Protestant churches taking a stand against them as the Catholic church does. And my point was that the government should not override religious liberty. However, the government should protect life. I also think the church, whether Protestant or Catholic should be able to have an honest and informed stance.)
We're in a unique time as far as bioethics. Science is able to do things that seemingly outpace our response to the morality of it.
When I first dealt with the issue of oral contraceptives, the info I was given was that oral contraceptives prevented ovulation. If that is the way it works, I have no ethical objections since I don't have philosophical objections to birth control. However, for oral contraceptives that also prevent implantation, I do have ethical issues with that. For oral contraceptives whose primary purpose is to prevent ovulation, but MAY also prevent implantation is the tricky area we are having to navigate.
Last edited by bonnie knox on 11/20/12 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/20/12 2:28 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | After looking at all the solid information we could find about the pill, even though she had been prescribed them for dysfunctional uterine bleeding and terrible periods, my wife and I decided not to continue her on birth control pills. The potential abortifacient issue was a major reason, as well as the numerous health risks involved for my wife. |
I think I fall into the same camp as far as your thinking on oral contraceptives, but I am not philosophically opposed to all artificial means of birth control. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/20/12 2:31 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
| I agree some forms of contraception are not morally offensive. Our main concern is the abortifacient form. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
11/20/12 2:43 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Nature Boy Florida |
Certainly this is a good discussion...
but I for one am ready for the Republicans to end the NO ABORTION plank in the platform.
We have lost the argument - but we can find an argument that we can win that will turn the tide.
30 years ago - what chance did homosexual marriage have anywhere (outside of Elder's hometown)...NONE.
They started chipping away by coming up with arguments that most agreed on.
It will be the same with abortion.
Use the Supreme Court ruling to chip away at what is legal. It clearly says that abortion is only legal up to the age of viability. 8 months is viable virtually always. Run on a plank that makes abortion illegal after 8 months of pregnancy. The libs will cry foul - and the mainstream media will ignore it - but the libs will be the extremists because they WILL NOT agree to it - but virtually all people - including women that have been raped - will agree to it.
It's time to quit losing the argument that says life has begun at conception - even if you believe it - we can't win that today. Just like the framers of the Constitution put in that slaves would count as 3/5's of a human - which sounds horrible today - but it was 3/5's more than what they counted before the Constitution was implemented - and it began to turn the tide.
Let's learn from history - not beat our head against it.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
11/20/12 4:50 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
PastorJackson |
so us "Christians" are not supposed to use your DNC tactics huh? I am guessing that includes you since you supposedly are one are you not? Hmmm you did not say "us" | theElder wrote: | | JLarry wrote: | Regardless to what we believe here.
The socialist Dictator says you must provide the pill with no co-pay. |
I believe the Communists were the first to discover that if you tell a lie often enough and with conviction that eventually it will become accepted as truth.
I'm beginning to see the same type of tactic being used on here by 'Christians'.
That is a real shame. |
_________________
Are the things you are living for, worth Christ dying for?
http://www.jacksonplant.org/
http://jacksonplant.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/jackson.plant |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4743
11/20/12 6:26 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
theElder |
PastorJackson, you seem to have those 'rules for radicals' down pat! Does that mean you are a Saul Alinsky devotee?
What I was referring to obviously was the phrasing of 'socialist Dictator' which was used by JLarry in his post. Of course you knew that or certainly should have known it.
You should also know that kind of statement is more and more common on this board. "Christians' are saying all kinds of untrue and outrageous things because they certainly have a problem showing their 'Christian' love for at least one politician.
I really don't care how much you criticise the President's policies but to write untrue things about it calls into question your 'Christian' values.
But let's try not to be so hypocritical if that is possible. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1924
11/20/12 7:19 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
PastorJackson |
sure you lead the way. and no I am not I am an intell analyst and I know to study my opponents and learn how they operate. Oh quote one untrue thing I posted just one. | theElder wrote: | PastorJackson, you seem to have those 'rules for radicals' down pat! Does that mean you are a Saul Alinsky devotee?
What I was referring to obviously was the phrasing of 'socialist Dictator' which was used by JLarry in his post. Of course you knew that or certainly should have known it.
You should also know that kind of statement is more and more common on this board. "Christians' are saying all kinds of untrue and outrageous things because they certainly have a problem showing their 'Christian' love for at least one politician.
I really don't care how much you criticise the President's policies but to write untrue things about it calls into question your 'Christian' values.
But let's try not to be so hypocritical if that is possible. |
_________________
Are the things you are living for, worth Christ dying for?
http://www.jacksonplant.org/
http://jacksonplant.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/jackson.plant |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4743
11/21/12 1:55 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
theElder |
You’re too easy, PastorJackson!
I’ll just start with your latest:
“Ladies and gentlemen I present the one and only DNC playbook, Saul Allensky's rules for radicals.”
“The us is allowing and sponsoring free open unlimited abortions……………”
“FACT: he went (meaning Indonesia) when it was not legal to go so he had to use non us passport,”
Here are 3.   |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1924
11/21/12 1:06 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Dave Dorsey |
| Let's keep the thread on topic, guys. Start a new one if you need to discuss something else. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
11/21/12 1:36 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
theElder |
| Sorry, Dave. You are right and I apologize QW. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1924
11/21/12 1:43 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Is "morning after pill" abortion??? |
bonnie knox |
| fortheleastofthese wrote: |
Let me clarify that I mean oral "contraception" and not abortion as birth control.
My question is doesn't regular birth control work in the same way??? Is preventing implantation abortion?
Scientifically, one could define it as such if you want to define life as the moment the sperm makes contact with an egg. In my gut, my own conscious does not think taking a birth control pill (whether every day or the morning after) is the same as getting an abortion.
I just don't see taking the morning after pill or regular birth control pill the same as an injection, abortion pill, or having the actual operation.
That's my personal opinion. I consider myself pro-life, but I just don't feel like taking contraceptives is abortion. I don't have any bad will toward those who feel convicted about taking them either. That's totally fine!
I just don't believe taking an oral contraceptive before implantation is considered murder. Am I wrong and guilty of murder for feeling that way??? |
I think one issue at work is that oral contraceptives have been widely accepted in our culture (including the evangelical church). For the most part, there has not been a lot of discussion on it. I can totally respect those who came from a generation that just did not openly discuss the making of babies.
The fact that it is so widely accepted can possibly influence how we view it. (Not saying that is necessarily the case with you.)
Now, if you don't have a problem ethically with preventing a fertilized egg from implanting (and assuming you do believe in protecting preborn life), I think the question that must be asked is why pick that event (implantation) over fertilization as the time that life begins? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/21/12 2:04 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
PastorJackson |
|
|
| |
|
| |
John Jett |
I'm not sure if this is just because we've reached the end of our reproductive years, but my stance on all of this has changed a lot. When I was young and first married, I bought into the whole pill/contraceptives thing. Even thought it was the right thing to do to have a surgical procedure once we were "done having kids". As I've gotten older and I see the wonderful world of children and the possibility of grandchildren on the horizon I've started wondering why I never heard anything taught against birth "control". Like all of the other good protestants, I believed that since the Catholics taught it, it must be wrong. I mean, how could the cult of Mary be more righteous than I am? But, as we move toward the reaping years of the generations of 2.1 children per Christian family and we wonder why there aren't more conservative Christians coming up into the world, why the Muslim population is overtaking us, I'm really wondering was I wrong? If children are the inheritance of The Lord, then why did I opt for a small inheritance (we have 3 children)?
Psalm 127:3-5 ESV
Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one's youth. Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them! He shall not be put to shame when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.
Why will he not be put to shame in front of his enemies? Uhh, because he has more children than his enemies!
Is there anyone who would trade one of their kids for every vacation they ever took? Every car they ever drove? Not me.
I'm really not trying to condemn anyone here, I've been down the same road, I just want to rethink this, maybe tell my children that there is a LOT more to life than having the money for an extra car or TV or vacation. |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4955
11/21/12 7:21 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
bonnie knox |
John, I hear what you're saying, but the multiplied conception was a result of the Fall.
One of my grandmothers gave birth TEN times, the other EIGHT! It ain't easy (for the woman anyway). |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/22/12 12:05 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | John, I hear what you're saying, but the multiplied conception was a result of the Fall. |
Huh? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
11/22/12 1:04 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
bonnie knox |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | John, I hear what you're saying, but the multiplied conception was a result of the Fall. |
Huh? |
Genesis 3:16a Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/22/12 1:40 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
John Jett |
I'm not sure I follow you but multiple conception wasn't a problem when we were having our kids
Seriously though the pain of childbirth (and it is great), was never even mentioned in our conversations deciding whether or not to have more children. |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4955
11/22/12 6:49 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | Seriously though the pain of childbirth (and it is great), was never even mentioned in our conversations deciding whether or not to have more children. |
I knew on the delivery room table if I had another, it would be ADOPTED!  |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/22/12 8:00 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
bonnie knox |
| My take on the "multiply" thy conception meant that Eve would bear a child every year and a half to two years rather than once every (20 years, 40 years, I don't know - if everybody lived forever, it wouldn't matter would it?). |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/22/12 8:09 am
|
|
|
| |
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
