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End-Time Great Revival

Acts-celerater Posts: 725 **2/11/13 3:28 pm**

I've been having a debate with another pastor as to whether we should be expecting a last great move of God before the return of Jesus to this world.

He maintains that the prophecy of Joel was fulfilled at the day of Pentecost (Peter said, this is that!) and that there is no basis in believing that there will be a final great move of God. When I read Joel 2, I see a former and a latter rain and a time when the two are combined into one former & latter rain. Now of course I am aware that we should never base any doctrine upon 1 verse but I have always heard and personally felt that the Day of Pentecost fulfilled the former rain, the 1900's revival fulfilled the latter rain (we're in it) and that there would be a former/latter last move of God. He says the Charismatic Outpuring of the 70's & 80's fulfilled the last of the last and that all we are waiting upon is the Return of Jesus. I have heard and read many prophecies about this going all the way back to Azusa St.

What do you think & do you have any basis for what you think based on Scripture? Just wondering.
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[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **2/11/13 4:17 pm**

Since the last days began with Christ's first coming (Hebrews 1:2), and Peter, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, interpreted Joel's prophecy in Joel 2:28 of "It shall come to pass afterward," as "in the last days," my understanding is that the entire era from Pentecost to Christ's return to earth is meant to be a time in which God shall pour out His Spirit upon all mankind (not just occasionally and temporarily coming upon a few faithful Jews as was typical under the Old Covenant).

Another thing we have to keep in mind is that not all of Joel's prophecy that Peter based his Pentecost sermon on has been fulfilled yet, especially the end-time judgments upon the wicked that are included in Acts 2, so the idea that we can expect no further outpourings of the Holy Spirit before Jesus returns because "This is that" was supposedly all fulfilled in Acts 2 is simply not true to the facts of the prophecy itself.

Also, we know from other passages in Scripture that revival and outpourings of the Spirit are conditioned upon repentance and faith, first and foremost among those who are called by His name, which explains why we don't see constant revival and outpourings as often as we should. Unfortunately, many who claim to be Pentecostal all too often become practical cessationists when they deny even the possibility of any more outpourings of the Spirit in this present age.

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **2/11/13 4:17 pm**

A great falling away - not many are expecting God to return - where is the promise of his coming - just like in the days of Noah - if it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived....

just my o...I understand why others feel differently
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Re: End-Time Great Revival

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5431 **2/11/13 4:21 pm**

I have always felt this way, NBF

Acts-dicted Posts: 7766 **2/11/13 4:36 pm**

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **2/11/13 4:40 pm**

Apostle Humptyscrunch: I feel another pen name coming on.

I agree with that assessment, Raf. For one thing, when we hear the word "revival," we think of a series of church meetings. That's not a revival.

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3682 **2/11/13 5:09 pm**

I think Quiet Wyatt and Randy explained much better than I what the Joel prophecy entails. It isn't a something that is yet to be, but it is something that is happening now. As already explained, the last days began with Christ, not some yet-to-arrive time. Many believers are waiting for such a time, and I pray that many turn to Christ, especially as things in the western world turn darker and darker.

But I think 2 Chronicles 7:14 applies here. We can experience a pouring out of the Holy Spirit, as we repent of our half-heartedness, having left our first love. We in the US, though abundantly blessed when compared to the rest of the world, seem to have lost the sense of our daily need for God. We are in an age that seems to be a split between the Ephesian church and the Laodicean church. Partly too fat on good things we enjoy, part devoid of the pure love for Christ that should be our ministry motivation. As we repent of our sins, and turn to God, will He not draw near to us? (James 4:8) "If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, I will forgive their sins, and I will heal their land."

Ultimately, we are responsible for our own spiritual condition. We are the ones who allow our passion and zeal to be cooled down. We are the ones who allow sin to take root. But if we draw near God, He will draw near us.
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[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **2/11/13 5:29 pm**

About the great falling away/apostacy in the last days, that too has been happening since Paul first prophesied it in the first century.

It is not EITHER outpouring OR great apostacy; instead it is BOTH/AND at the same time.

Typically, those who would deny all hope for any outpouring now choose to focus only on the negative side of the last days prophecies in Scripture. They also tend to focus on the sad spiritual state of the church in the United States and Europe, and conveniently choose to ignore what God is doing throughout the world in our day, a day in which the church of The Lord Jesus truly is growing more and more powerfully (primarily in the impoverished areas of the world) than ever before.

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5431 **2/11/13 5:42 pm**

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3682 **2/11/13 7:28 pm**

I am not one to bash the US church, I know that God is doing great things here. But I still see and experience, both personally, and in the church, this attitude of complacency. I had to personally repent of this, just today I came to the realization that I had grown complacent in my spiritual life. Not that I backslid, but I reached a place where I was doing ministry out of necessity, lacking that love and passion for Christ that I need. I found myself studying scripture not for my own spiritual growth, but for a sermon. My prayer life has become lifeless. I pray, to be sure. But more out of duty than a place of joy. It's sad.

I recognize the dangers of that. And I recognize just how easy it is to fall into that trap. Being bivocational, really, 2 full time jobs, a family, ministry, and everything else life tosses at me can really be drag. And if that attitude afflicts me, who else is it afflicting?
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Revival

Bound By Beaulah Posts: 1003 **2/11/13 7:56 pm**

I heard Dr Mark Rutland preaching on this today. He said he didn't beleve there would be a last great revival in the Western part of the world, Europe and the U.S because we have seen our share of revivals in the past. He pointed out that revival is taken place in Africa, Indonesia, Guatumalia, India, and other places, but we are not seeing it here in the U.S. I am starting to believe that very same thing also, after being on mission trips out of the U.S and seeing the unbeliveable hunger for God and the Holy Spirit and here in the U.S we are more worried about programs and lighting and the lastest greatest thing and we have all of those but in alot of those places they have everything except the Holy Spirit!
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Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **2/11/13 8:59 pm**

Just from interpreting the Bible, I wouldn't say the 'latter rain' prophecy applies to Pentecost.

Sometimes people believe the Lord gives them a verse about something in their life or their church that describes it. I have a friend who is a missionary, and back when he first got stirred up about missions, he believed the Lord spoke to him through the verse that says that He put before him a door that no man could shut.

In context, I wouldn't say that verse is about my friend Mike if I were teaching on the passage, and tell everyone it's just a verse put in there so my friend could know he is a missionary.

But I wouldn't say the Lord couldn't use that verse to speak to my friend Mike about his missionary call.

And I wouldn't say the Lord couldn't speak to certain people at the Azusa Street revival over a hundred years ago out of the passage about the early and latter rain.

I wouldn't say people at Azusa Street were incapable misinterpreting scripture either.

I don't know of any specific prophecy that talks about a great last days revival. There are prophecies about the nations believing in Jesus. There is that part in Revelation about every nation, kindred, and tongue, and if I were ministering to a people or language group that had no believers, I could claim that verse to believe for at least some conversions among that people-group.

That's not to say a great revival couldn't happen. And I'm not saying God doesn't have any great revivals left for nations or that could sweep across many nations. God can reveal His will to do such things through prophecies. My wife's been prophesying that now is a time for the Japanese people and that the Lord would use people form the nations Japan colonized to plunder the souls of the Japanese. I'd like to do something to help them to get to Japan sometime if the Lord provides the opportunity.

Pentecostalism is a 'revivalist' religion and there is a lot of emphasis on revival. It feels great to hear people talk about revival and to predict revival. But when I look at the end times in the Bible, it looks like people in general are getting bad--the love of many growing cold, and things like that. There could be some revivals before that. Let's keep believing Yahweh for all the souls He'll save.
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There will always be a move of God...

Acts Mod Posts: 25305 **2/11/13 9:04 pm**

for those who have a genuine hunger for it.

But it is becoming the exception rather than the rule. All too many believers live as though Christ is never returning.

As long as they escape hell, they're happy.
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Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **2/11/13 9:07 pm**

I remember Carl Richardson saying "if you want revival, draw a circle and get in it. Then, ask God to send a revival inside the circle."

To the bored Western church revival = crowds/personalities

Acts-dicted Posts: 7766 **2/12/13 1:30 am**

Acts-dicted Posts: 7766 **2/12/13 1:32 am**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **2/12/13 4:04 am**

For my part, I am not defining "revival" by past moves of God other than what is described in the Book of Acts. This has always been an essential Pentecostal concept--that God's will is that His church be fully empowered by the Holy Spirit in the last days so that she may be a proper witness unto Him. The abuse of a concept by some does not invalidate the concept itself.

If God's will remains the same today as it has been since Acts 2--to pour out His Spirit upon all flesh in the last days, and if it still is the case that it is not His will that any should perish, but that all may be brought to repentance, and if the fields are still white unto harvest, then we have good reason to hope for a harvest of souls in the days before Christ's return.

If the practical cessationist theory advocated by some is true, we all had better make sure we don't try to witness to anyone I guess. At least don't expect to see much good results for your efforts. Especially don't expect more than a very very few to be converted ever again, since we can expect no great moves of God any more and the "Laodicean Church Age" is unquestionably upon us. (Of course, this makes it so very easy to simply judge any and all "revivals" as not of God--just like cessationists have been doing since their unbelieving, pessimistic theory first became accepted as dogma).

Somebody had better tell all the Bible-believing, Book-of-Acts-type Christians in China, Africa, and in South America that what they're experiencing is not a genuine outpouring of the life-giving Spirit of God. They need to know that there will be no more genuine revivals, awakenings, or outpourings of the Spirit before Jesus comes back. Hope they wake up and realize how wrong they've been these past several decades. The sooner they learn to just hold the fort til Jesus comes, the better.

It's a good thing the pioneers of Pentecost in places like the Shearer Schoolhouse and Azusa Street didn't believe the idea that the days of revival were past and that the most one could hope for was to win maybe a few souls occasionally before His return.

End time revivals

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4743 **2/12/13 3:39 pm**

I experienced the "supposed" Brownsville revival and I saw what happened there I know what happened to me and to thousands of people I met so if you want to be critical I would not about moves of God. How can a child of God be so blase about a move where multiple thousands were added to the kingdom of God? The moves of the 90s were a revival in that it turned our hearts toward God and the impact is still felt weather you choose to accept it or not does not negate the truth.
I wonder how many here would have made the same statement of Acts, that it had to be a "supposed" move in the upper room, these could not be God since it did not happen as we believed it would "We think the past was a model we need to expect the future to be like. " and they acted all crazy drunk and all. SO we must ignore the fruit of the thousands added. I see way too much of this attitude in the Christian world today.
All I can say about the revivals is look to Africa and Asia now and see the revival there. Look up.
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Re: End time revivals

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5431 **2/12/13 4:12 pm**

Thanks for the good discussion

Acts-celerater Posts: 725 **2/12/13 4:13 pm**

I personally believe we are living in the time of the end of the end - now. A persona lfriend fo mine, a pioneer of Pentecost, Arthur Burt from Wales, who is now 100 yrs old, who traveled with Wigglesworth and who just spoke in my church a couple of months ago gave this prohecy in 1930

“THERE SHALL COME A BREATH AND THE BREATH SHALL BRING THE WIND AND THE WIND SHALL BRING THE RAIN AND THE RAIN SHALL BRING THE FLOODS AND FLOODS AND FLOODS AND THE FLOODS SHALL BRING THE TORRENTS AND TORRENTS AND TORRENTS.

SO SHALL THEY BE SAVED LIKE FALLING LEAVES FROM THE MIGHTY OAKS SWEPT BY A HURRICANE IN A GREAT FOREST. ARMS AND LEGS SHALL COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN AND THERE SHALL BE NO EBB.”

He believes we are in that day he calls tabernacles. The fullness of the harvest. He beleives there will be a parallell of a mighty outpouring and revival and also a time of great anquish and trouble in this world. So do I. I also am experiencing what Mark Rutland (also a friend of mine) said. I see more hunger and more miracles away from the US than here. I travel to Africa again in April and I know what will happen there. THousands upon thousands will be saved, demons cast out and mighty miracles of the Holy SPirit will take place. Why? Because they are hungry and thristy and they will be filled.

But I also believe God is Not finished with America. I was just wondering how some of you felt. I can see this outpouring in Joel as I said but it is hard to pinpoint other specific scriptures to back it up.

I guess we'll soon find out. I was in the Full Gospel Businessmen's movement in the 70-80"s, been a part of the Charismatic movement, been to Toronto, been to Brownsville, been to Msisouri and experienced revival and the Presence of God tin those meetings and in my church and as I have preached around the world. We are still in the "this is that" that Peter spoke of. Revival is Pentecostalism. I for one want more and I believe we shall see it once more even in America before we leave.

Thanks again for all of your input. Still awaiting some scriptures.
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