Actscelerate.com

Church of God sold on courthouse steps

Acts-celerater Posts: 536 **1/28/12 9:52 pm**

PASTORS... please stop borrowing large amounts of money to build a name for yourself, then walk away while there is still a heavy debt. If you do leave a church that you helped put into debt...at least have the decency to turn in your credentials & don't go to another church and repeat the same behavior.

A church was sold on the courthouse steps this past week while the man responsible for the unbearable debt has been "promoted" to another city and is doing the same thing again. Where is accountability in the Church of God? It is foolish and sinful.

The pastor that has had to manage this financial crisis did not deserve this tragedy. After decades of loyal ministry, he was put into the situation...then had absolutely NO SUPPORT from those "over him in the Lord" who did not even care enough to call and ask how he was doing.

The pastor, overseers and church "leaders" who signed up for all the debt are long gone...not even thinking twice about the mess they left for honest, hard working, sincere people to clean up.

We need to pass a motion that says if a pastor borrows money to build or expand, he/she should be forced to STAY until the debt is at least 80 percent paid off. To walk away from heavy debt should be reason for revoking credentials.

Have a nice day!

At one time in the COG

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1345 **1/28/12 10:08 pm**

I heard someone say that the COG has never lost a church to a foreclosing. I guess that is not an accurate any more.

PF Embarassed

This may be the first...

Acts-celerater Posts: 536 **1/28/12 10:21 pm**

...but I know for an absolute fact that it happened on Friday.

Hope it is the one and only...and never happens again.

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **1/28/12 11:44 pm**

I agree with the heart of your post. It has been done too many times, not that the churches was sold on the court house steps, but that the following pastors were forced to struggle under a terrible load.

I agree very much, some one should be held accountable. Shocked

How I do not know, but it should not be a promotion. Confused

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Re: Church of God sold on courthouse steps (response)

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4682 **1/29/12 1:58 am**

Sorry in advance Admins, but I'm asking for names here - maybe not an Acts name but I want proof of this story!

I agree with Dean

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1909 **1/29/12 8:57 am**

There is nothing in the policy of this board that would prevent names from being named. We have named guys who have gotten into legal trouble and faced criminal charges. Why can't names be used in this thread?

Also, I would like to know who made or forced other pastors to follow guys who have run up the debts. When a man chooses to nake a move he asumes the risks involved. No one forces anyone to move anywhere. No one forces a pastor into a situation where he has to struggle with debt. He made that choice on his own.
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Socialism is a great idea until you run out of other people's money.

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **1/29/12 12:19 pm**

I am not sure anyone is 'forced' to follow and pay the debt.

I am sure at first view, some see this as an 'opportunity' to 'show what I can do', then get in the saddle and realize this one is too wild to ride. (Or too far in debt to pay up.)

I do not know how Clermont is doing, but we attended a couple times in our travels and it was apparent that the pastor had to spend most of his time raising money.

I wish the days of 'running up the debt and taking off' were over, but they are not. Plenty of examples around.

But honestly the 'Promotions' bother me as much.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **1/29/12 12:24 pm**

I would hate for a church to be lost that I had supported and helped. As a layman, I would cry, then get upset at a pastor and a board who had been so ignorant, as to 'over extend'. Crying or Very sad

_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **1/29/12 1:13 pm**

Let's not call the building the 'Church of God.' They didn't sell the members as slaves to pay a debt, did they?

Why is it the denomination's officials put the pastors in place, when things are going well, the denomination owns the building, but when something like this happens, the denomination doesn't bail it out. No wonder other denominations and going independent has such an appeal.
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01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **1/29/12 4:05 pm**

wracking up debt

Acts-dicted Posts: 8065 **1/29/12 4:11 pm**

American style Christianity at its best. Pastors spending 90% of their mental energies on maintaining a building, and actually pastoring about 10% of the time. Then some, as is insinuated in this thread, get on ego trips only to abandon the flock when the debt load gets too heavy.

Friends, this is why I am heading south of the border to pastor. Sure ,there will be problems, but debt won't be one of them.

Location and Names

Acts-celerater Posts: 536 **1/29/12 4:33 pm**

The location is not important. Calling people now would be of no effect. This was a process over 15 years of continuing to build buildings when the church could not afford what it already owed. Instead of scaling back, it was a "if we build it they will come" mentality. Borrow, borrow, borrow. Whoever "they" were supposed to be never came.

When the church was on the verge of "being lost", the pastor got a move to a new place. The current pastor has maintained his integrity and a positive attitude despite being ignored and talked about by other ministers.

The pastor who built the debt load to an unbearable level has been gone for a few years, so to start making calls to/about him now is too late.

I agree that the people are The Church. This Church is looking for a building to meet in, but they want nothing to do with the Church of God. Many were members for decades and do not understand why the pastor could not get a meeting, visit or phone call from "Cleveland".

The church says "we did not leave the Church of God; the Church of God left us".

There will be a strong, life-giving church birthed with the people who were abandoned by the denomination. The good news is that the Hope of the Church is not found in Cleveland or a state office. The LORD Himself is sustaining this congregation who is now looking for a new home.

The positive aspect of this is that other churches in the area have offered space for the church to meet until it can find a new building. Business people who do not even attend the church have offered space if needed.

My post is a plea to pastors...if you make the debt, stay there to pay it off. At least get it paid down to a reasonable, managable level for the next pastor & future leaders.

Golf Cart Mafia Soldier Posts: 2458 **1/29/12 4:52 pm**

i have a sinking feeling that we're going to see this situation played out a lot more over the next few years. Unfortunately, the administration of the COG isn't like the federal govt...they won't bail the local churches out because they don't have the money to do it.

Acts-dicted Posts: 8065 **1/29/12 5:04 pm**

Re: wracking up debt

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3682 **1/29/12 7:30 pm**

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **1/29/12 8:07 pm**

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1338 **1/30/12 12:26 am**

I don't know what state this was in but I can tell you that Dr. Walker and Dr. Baker in North Georgia was inundated with failed loans and churches who could not make their payments. In all of these situations, the state office was there to assist these pastor's and helped negotiate with lending institutions so these churches could continue on. This cost the state office a sizeable amount of money out of the state fund too.

In South Georgia there was one church which was upside down with a large mortgage debt and they could not pay the payment nor send money in with their reports. The Bishop helped them negotiate with the sell of the property and then gave them a smaller facility across town for their congregation to worship in. At one time the state office was making mortgage payments for 9 churches. The Bishop worked through all of this and, to my knowledge, all churches are self supporting now as it relates to their debt.

If the state was Florida or even the International Headquarters I can understand them not helping. They simply do not have the money to assist anyone right now.

I agree with the original poster. While the church body has to vote to borrow money, it is the pastor who is giving the leadership, and if he leads them into a massive building project, he should stay there to pay down the majority of the debt. I turned down going to two churches because of a huge debt that I do not know how the churches could pay.

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1924 **1/30/12 1:01 am**

Once again we have a post with nothing to show it to be the truth and everyone jumps on the bandwagon of how aweful the Cog is and how terrible the former pastor, the AB, the EC and everyone in between acted in the situation.

Then someone comes on asking for some kind of proof and things beging to change!

From reading the first post one could easily have come to the conclusion (which appearanty most did) that all of this occurred fairly recent. Someone runs up massive debt, leaves the church, the next pastor is unable to handle the payments and the church is sold on the courthouse steps.

After being called to back up the story it is suddenly revealed that the former pastor has been gone for years! Nothing is said about what has happened to the congregation in the meantime. Appearantly they were able to pay the mortgage for a lot of those years. If not foreclosure would have taken place long ago.

So what caused the inability to pay the mortgage. Was it that massive debt or was it that folks in the congregation begin suffering the effects of the recession that has hit virtually every other church in the Cog? There are few churches that have not seen their finances suffer because of plant closings, layoffs, etc.

Looking for friends needs to back up his story with names of the pastors involved, names of the city and church, etc. Or maybe this kind of story is why he is named Looking for friends!

Elder

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **1/30/12 12:04 pm**

You have a lot of truth there.

But the poster does also. The poster is pointing out something we all know is true all over America, not only the COG, but the COG IS affected. It is nothing new. It has been happening for years. If you are not aware of it, you aren't paying attention in NC & FL.

Personally I see no reason the Church name is not listed. If it happened it is public record, where ever it is.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3682 **1/30/12 1:57 pm**