 |
Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 |
Quiet Wyatt |
| It is not clear how we win anyone or anything if we just accept homosexuality as somehow normal and immutable. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
9/27/11 3:17 pm
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| |
p5harri |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | It is not clear how we win anyone or anything if we just accept homosexuality as somehow normal and immutable. |
Exactly....
_________________
We are beating the bushes for mice and the lions are tearing us apart. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1702
9/27/11 3:20 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
p5harri |
| Jason Moore wrote: | | p5harri wrote: | Wouldn't change my mind in the least. Same as if science proved evolution was true and factual.
I'd still believe the creation exactly like I always have.
No implication for me. Orientation is a choice.
Does that make me stubborn? Yes
Does that make me narrow and closed minded? Yes
Do I really care what others believe or thing? Not so much.
Patrick. |
Nice. It's a wonder we haven't won the world yet. |
Most likely because we are so wishy washy about issues that should be black and white.
_________________
We are beating the bushes for mice and the lions are tearing us apart. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1702
9/27/11 3:21 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Jason Moore |
| p5harri wrote: | | Jason Moore wrote: | | p5harri wrote: | Wouldn't change my mind in the least. Same as if science proved evolution was true and factual.
I'd still believe the creation exactly like I always have.
No implication for me. Orientation is a choice.
Does that make me stubborn? Yes
Does that make me narrow and closed minded? Yes
Do I really care what others believe or thing? Not so much.
Patrick. |
Nice. It's a wonder we haven't won the world yet. |
Most likely because we are so wishy washy about issues that should be black and white. |
Patrick, read my post above...I edited it just for you. 
_________________
Christian love, either towards God or towards man, is an affair of the will.
-C.S. Lewis
The only good race pace is suicide pace--and today looks like a good day to die.
-Steve Prefontaine |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 720
9/27/11 3:30 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
| p5harri wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | It is not clear how we win anyone or anything if we just accept homosexuality as somehow normal and immutable. |
Exactly.... |
I would also add that it is not clear how anyone wins at all if our message loses the power and promise of real victory over sin. Like I said earlier, had I listened to the psychologists and to AA over 20 years ago when I was a pathetic drunk, I would not have sought God for deliverance from alcoholism and would likely be dead today--and lost forever. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
9/27/11 4:05 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Jason Moore |
If you think it's normal to lose every sinful compulsion, even post-regeneration, read Romans 7. This has nothing to do with not defining sin or standing up for what's right.
It's about people who deal with real issues trying to reconcile faith and life. I wish the world was as simple as bumper-sticker slogans.
If you acknowledge your desire for chocolate cake, it doesn't make you a glutton even if you don't eat it. Sometimes God may take the desire itself away, but sometimes God may require a person to fight through. Which requires more grace? This is the difference between orientation and action. It doesnt take a lot of grace for you to not be attacted to men. For someone else, though, it requires the power of the Holy Spirit to win over that temptation. It doesn't make them less Christian than you. You might even say they are more familiar with God's grace for victory than someone that is "naturally" good.
_________________
Christian love, either towards God or towards man, is an affair of the will.
-C.S. Lewis
The only good race pace is suicide pace--and today looks like a good day to die.
-Steve Prefontaine |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 720
9/27/11 4:43 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
I never said (nor did I mean to imply) that it's normal to lose every sinful desire. Paul says in Galatians 5:16 that if we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts/desires of the flesh. He doesn't say we won't ever have such desires at all.
I would not agree with the use of the term 'compulsion' though.
That being said, I do find the idea that Romans 7 depicts the normal Christian life to simply not add up contextually, and to directly contradict Romans 6 and Romans 8. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
9/27/11 4:59 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Jason Moore |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | I never said (nor did I mean to imply) that it's normal to lose every sinful desire. Paul says in Galatians 5:16 that if we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts/desires of the flesh. He doesn't say we won't ever have such desires at all.
I would not agree with the use of the term 'compulsion' though.
That being said, I do find the idea that Romans 7 depicts the normal Christian life to simply not add up contextually, and to directly contradict Romans 6 and Romans 8. |
So, just to be clear, you feel that Romans 7 contradicts Romans 6 and 8?
_________________
Christian love, either towards God or towards man, is an affair of the will.
-C.S. Lewis
The only good race pace is suicide pace--and today looks like a good day to die.
-Steve Prefontaine |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 720
9/27/11 5:26 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
p5harri |
| Jason Moore wrote: | | p5harri wrote: | | Jason Moore wrote: | | p5harri wrote: | Wouldn't change my mind in the least. Same as if science proved evolution was true and factual.
I'd still believe the creation exactly like I always have.
No implication for me. Orientation is a choice.
Does that make me stubborn? Yes
Does that make me narrow and closed minded? Yes
Do I really care what others believe or thing? Not so much.
Patrick. |
Nice. It's a wonder we haven't won the world yet. |
Most likely because we are so wishy washy about issues that should be black and white. |
Patrick, read my post above...I edited it just for you. |
We're cool. For the record my words don't always follow my actions, I'm far more forgiving to others then I appear.
Patrick
_________________
We are beating the bushes for mice and the lions are tearing us apart. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1702
9/27/11 5:37 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
| Jason Moore wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | I never said (nor did I mean to imply) that it's normal to lose every sinful desire. Paul says in Galatians 5:16 that if we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts/desires of the flesh. He doesn't say we won't ever have such desires at all.
I would not agree with the use of the term 'compulsion' though.
That being said, I do find the idea that Romans 7 depicts the normal Christian life to simply not add up contextually, and to directly contradict Romans 6 and Romans 8. |
So, just to be clear, you feel that Romans 7 contradicts Romans 6 and 8? |
I don't believe they contradict each other, no.
The interpretation that Rom 7 depicts the normal Christian life is what contradicts Rom 6 and 8. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
9/27/11 6:03 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Daniel Rushing |
| C. Chris Moody wrote: | Here is bottom line for me. God does not birth anyone into homosexuality. The statement "God made me this way," is the prevailing statement made by the homosexual community. If we buy that line, then you better be able to respond to...if God made me this way then this is ok... The problem is God never made them that way.................
FloridaForever I really believe a person can have tendencies. However, to stamp God's name on the blame is outrageous. There are instances of people having ailments from birth... I still have never found one where one was born a homosexual. I agree with your theological stand on not acting upon the desire. However, that desire did not come by God making them this way. It happened when they chose to be gay and act upon those feelings. Being born with a physical ailment is totally different than a behavior issue.
I guess what i am struggling with... what is meant by orientation. I perceive that to mean God made me this way. I dont buy this and never will. |
There is a difference between "God made me this way AND I was born this way". I do not believe that God made them that way. Rather, SIN made them that way. But do we have enough information to dismiss the idea that maybe some people were born (post-fall) that way?
Some people are born schizophrenics, some are born with sever social anomalies. Among those people you will find those who succumbed to murder or other criminal psychotic behaviors. Perhaps we find the same in homosexuality. Is it not fair to consider the possibility that some people are born with a homosexual sex drive- that does not make it ok to act immorally. But maybe, if it's true, we could be more understanding and sympathetic. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3063
9/27/11 8:12 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| For the record... |
Ken Shelton |
| parousia wrote: | Did any of you fellows see this response? It's from "JUST THE FACTS".
| Quote: | | Church of God is one of the more radical religious groups out there. They love sucking in money from people and getting into politics. I find it interesting that this church found it appropriate to spend the money on 9 billboards, instead of just one to counter the other church group. I wonder how much their followers approve of their donations being used this way? Of course, we could also look at them owning the old Trinova Headquarters in Monclova as their new church. May I add that its value is now $5.9 MILLION. Pretty good chunk of change. They spent $7 MILLION to buy the property. Also according to Areis Online, they haven't paid almost $400K in property taxes. So I would look at these people and first ask, why are they screwing the rest of the local economy by not paying their taxes and how are they getting so much cash to blow on things that don't help the poor, sick, or needy. You know...things Christ would do. This is another pastor who will probably continue to pad his pockets and live the high life and on judgement day get a rude awakening for being nothing but materialistic and get the spend eternity in purgatory or worse. |
|
For the record...
I've known Tony for a long time. Kitty and I are close personal friends of Tony and Shirley. I've read the posts on this thread since it first went up and thought I would share my thoughts.
First, Tony is a man who chases after the heart of God. He's dedicated and faithful. I've participated in several city-wide ministry events with Tony over the years and have observed the city and community leaders to be supportive and appreciative of Tony"s long-term vision for Toledo.
Second, Tony is a man of integrity. I have always found that he finishes what he starts and he honors his word.
Third, Tony's ministry does not have a delinquent property tax bill. What does exist is a legal agreement with the state of Ohio to make annual payments on a tax bill that previously existed on their property when the church purchased it. The State's happy and so is the church.
Fourth, I think I was the first or second friend that Tony called when they purchased the property on Strayer. I immediately went down and spent the day with him as he showed me the property and facilities. While I am not a real estate expert, I do know that the property value is much higher than 5.9 million - even in this economy. That amount is a tax valuation which tends to be about half of the real value of a piece of property.
Finally, I agree with some who have posted here that Tony needs prayer support and encouragement. He put faith into action and has used his resources to tell the truth to a world that's not much interested in hearing it.
I called Tony today and obtained his permission to post these comments.
_________________
Primum non nocere...Do no harm |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1052
9/29/11 9:54 am
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
