| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 I've given this some thought actually, for my own denom idea |
Poimen |
The way to do it without terribly upsetting the balance between affiliate (full denominational) and associate (cooperative, not denominational) churches might be to limit the privileges of membership for associate churches, their staff, and pastors. Things like voting privileges at state/regional/international meetings, and denominationally related offices, committees, and boards outside the local church, etc.
_________________
Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
9/16/11 1:59 am
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| |
sheepdogandy |
The only advantage for an Independent Congregation would be branding.
I met a brother a few years ago who pastored an Independent.
They were about to join the A/G for one reason and one reason only according to him.
Branding, the A/G name on the sign.
He said Indies had an awful reputation in his area and he expected to at least double in size when the A/G sign went up.
I could see his point.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
9/16/11 7:09 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Another viable option |
roughridercog |
A church can mother a congregation under it's banner and they church can place the pastor in that church yet to be organized rather than headquarters.
_________________
Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25305
9/16/11 8:12 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Here's my situation... |
Jamie Noel |
The COG restored my license in May of this year. I pastor an independent church with no real date in mind as to whether or not I will bring it into the COG. In fact, it may never happen. Just two months after receiving my license back, I received a letter that I had recently surrendered my it to the COG. So, I don't know if I am really back or not....not really going to sweat it either.
_________________
Stay Positive! |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1138
9/16/11 7:48 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Associate churches and denominational OWNED churches ? |
COG Blessed |
| How can that work fairly? How can the same officials rule over current churches that have paid every bill locally and dutifully sent TOT and support programs in the same way as always and then place associate churches above all? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 160
9/16/11 9:30 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
sheepdogandy |
They can't.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
9/16/11 9:37 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Associate churches and denominational OWNED churches ? |
Travis Johnson |
| COG Blessed wrote: | | How can that work fairly? How can the same officials rule over current churches that have paid every bill locally and dutifully sent TOT and support programs in the same way as always and then place associate churches above all? |
This is the hard pill for us to swallow. Ready?
Take fairness and throw it out the window. Fairness is the big brother on the porch decrying the prodigal coming home.
Think kingdom expansion. If we can see over this hill to increased missions cooperation, we win. More partners. More mission. More brothers/sisters in our family. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
9/16/11 9:43 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| What will happen |
COG Blessed |
| when the present "owned" churches want their property to be locally church owned? Will they have to forfeit everything to HQ yet have associate property not owned by HQ? These churches won't be any more mission-minded thru the COG than they already are........... the COG just might get more credit! |
Friendly Face
Posts: 160
9/16/11 9:56 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: What will happen |
Travis Johnson |
| COG Blessed wrote: | | when the present "owned" churches want their property to be locally church owned? Will they have to forfeit everything to HQ yet have associate property not owned by HQ? These churches won't be any more mission-minded thru the COG than they already are........... the COG just might get more credit! |
If an independent church would like to participate with us in Mission, Lee University, COGTS, youth camps, and ascribe to our doctrine, as well as, give 15% of their tithe to co-operate with us, is it wise for us to say, "no...only if you give us your land."?
This is an unwise posture for us on almost every level. I DO understand that as people who have come up like this, it is painful to work out the equity...and honestly, I think every COG church ought to be a COG church because the COG earns that co-operation. As such, it should be voluntary. But, it isn't.
As such, I'd be OK with the next best thing....more cooperation! That's a good thing. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
9/16/11 10:17 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
Travis,
You are in favor of decentralization on principle, though, aren't you? At least that has been my impression of your sentiments in the past.
I really think they will need to work out some sort of associate status for those churches who want to partner with us but who wish to maintain ownership of their property. If not, it is hard to imagine how it would not lead to total decentralization, with the CoG becoming more of a voluntary cooperative fellowship, much like the A/G or the Baptists. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
9/16/11 11:03 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Poimen |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Travis,
You are in favor of decentralization on principle, though, aren't you? At least that has been my impression of your sentiments in the past.
I really think they will need to work out some sort of associate status for those churches who want to partner with us but who wish to maintain ownership of their property. If not, it is hard to imagine how it would not lead to total decentralization, with the CoG becoming more of a voluntary cooperative fellowship, much like the A/G or the Baptists. |
Actually, TCOG (which is even more centralized than you guys) has been operating denominationally, without any threat to centralization since 1993, while letting every local church own their own property. So, it can be done.
_________________
Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay."
Last edited by Poimen on 9/17/11 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
9/17/11 12:11 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
Poimen,
That is interesting. If the local churches own their own property (presumably with a local board vested with authority to govern the affaIrs of the local church) who has the authority to appoint/hire/fire pastors? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
9/17/11 12:37 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Poimen |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Poimen,
That is interesting. If the local churches own their own property (presumably with a local board vested with authority to govern the affaIrs of the local church) who has the authority to appoint/hire/fire pastors? |
Actually the local conference, under the leadership of the Pastor, governs the affairs of the church. Pastors however, are appointed at the sole discretion of the Overseer.
_________________
Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
9/17/11 3:30 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Nick Park |
The concept of Associate Churches would allow congregations to unite with the Church of God without having to surrender their title deeds and to raise up future leaders themselves without worrying that someone's buddy will be imposed on them as pastor instead. In all other respects they would fulfill the obligations of CoG churches - including paying the ToT.
As for those who complain that this would produce a two-tier category of churches, I rather see this as a stepping stone to allowing all CoG churches to own their own title deeds and to operate a better system of pastoral succession. We could point to the Associate Churches and say, "See, we allowed these guys to do it and the sky didn't collapse on us. So now let's implement similar improvements for everybody."
That's how change happens - one step at a time.
Regrettably, at the last GA, we demonstrated that our current system of doing business makes even little steps of change very difficult. I left Orlando profoundly disappointed over this issue. If we can't even take a no-brainer step to change for the better like this without appointing more studies and committees then I wonder whether we really have the capacity to be proactive and adapt for the future.
_________________
Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland
http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/ |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
9/17/11 6:45 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
I wasn't meaning to complain about a two-tiered set-up.
I don't think I am the only one who would have a major objection to giving deacon boards (patently unscriptural) authority over pastors. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
9/17/11 9:01 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
| Poimen wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Poimen,
That is interesting. If the local churches own their own property (presumably with a local board vested with authority to govern the affaIrs of the local church) who has the authority to appoint/hire/fire pastors? |
Actually the local conference, under the leadership of the Pastor, governs the affairs of the church. Pastors however, are appointed at the sole discretion of the Overseer. |
What if the local church decides they won't accept the pastor whom the overseer appoints? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
9/17/11 9:04 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Any time the missions program is expanded |
COG Blessed |
| to reach more souls ( which takes money to do) is a good thing. That's what it's all about-- reaching souls! Yet, I'm just trying to understand how this "change" as it's presented will work out with COG "owned" churches being treated differently than the associate churches. HQ will continue to govern the owned churches as before but will allow the associate churches to govern themselves. The "owned" churches will feel even more alienated while the associate churches will oppose any "outside" governing when they have not had this before. I was at the General Assembly too and can understand the concept of "more funds" coming in to improve any and all programs to further spread the gospel and fill specials needs anywhere. BTW.. I'm not referring to "owned" churches in a demeaning way just as a means of separation of the two. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 160
9/17/11 9:14 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Company owned and franchise |
doyle |
It's not unusual for businesses to have both company-owned stores and independent franchises which must follow basic company guidelines to continue to have the right to carry that company's brand.
What is wrong with having denominational owned churches AND also having associate or franchise churches as long as the franchises follow the brand standards?
How many friends do you have who require that to be their friend you have turn ownership of your house over to them? We can have many friend churches without having to own their property.
Doyle
_________________
The largest room in the world is the room for improvement. |
Acts-celerate Owner
Posts: 6957
9/17/11 11:02 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Poimen |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | Poimen wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Poimen,
That is interesting. If the local churches own their own property (presumably with a local board vested with authority to govern the affaIrs of the local church) who has the authority to appoint/hire/fire pastors? |
Actually the local conference, under the leadership of the Pastor, governs the affairs of the church. Pastors however, are appointed at the sole discretion of the Overseer. |
What if the local church decides they won't accept the pastor whom the overseer appoints? |
They can appeal to the Overseer, but ultimately are to respect and submit to him. If they still feel they are being wrongly forced into a pastoral situation they can appeal to the counselling committee, who can overturn if assembly ruling permits or has been abused, or who may (or may not) refer the case to the General Overseer for final dissolution. In most cases however, practically speaking, the Overseer's decision is final.
If the church rejects that then they are counted in rebellion to those over them and are asked to correct themselves and submit accordingly, or otherwise face being removed from fellowship in the organization.
_________________
Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
9/17/11 4:36 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
sheepdogandy |
In our case the Church Conference has the authority to declare the office of Pastor vacant.
NOT any board.
The Church Conference must elect a man to occupy the office of Pastor.
NOT any board.
Makes a difference.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
9/17/11 8:47 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
