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Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4508 **7/3/17 8:42 am**

Dean,

Have you read much of (or watched video of) N.T. Wright on this subject?
Just Google "NT Wright" and then any number of terms such as "rapture" or eschatology," etc.

For me - the following statement may sound a bit obtuse but it began to mess with me about how I read Paul (and it still is). I first heard it in his introduction (audio teaching) to the book of Romans. This is really close but may not be exact: "Monotheism plus election equals eschatology." The backdrop for his statement is his conjecture on "how to read the writings of Paul," and that Paul must be read through the lens of a Jew who understood (or believed) the particularly Jewish implications of scripture as he wrote to the fledgling gentile church.

Anyway, it is certainly interesting reading and study.

Oh yeah, like you and Wyatt, I too grew up hearing only pre-trib, pre-mill, stuff (charts, movies, everything! Smile

)

And for what it is worth, I am definitely PRE-millennial in that I believe the greatest tribulation to come to the church has been since the birth of Millennials.

(OK...bad joke... Smile

)

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **7/3/17 9:01 am**

I thought the movie "Thief in the Night" answered all of these questions.

It certainly scared me into thinking the rapture could happen at any moment.

Of course, I am still pre trib in my beliefs - after studying the scriptures for myself.

However, anyone premillennial has a basis in scripture - so I really never debate anyone about it.

None of us knows...except if we knew when to be watching - it wouldn't be as a thief in the night.

We will only know for sure AFTER it occurs - at that point - everyone please meet at your local church for further instructions.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today!

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **7/3/17 10:08 am**

Dean,

Throughout Scripture, God is revealed to have indignation and wrath upon every soul that does evil. It is exactly the same in the Book of Revelation as well as the other New Testament passages which speak of the tribulation that is to come--God will pour out His wrath upon the wicked. The faithful Christian will, as always is the case, still be subject to the wrath of man or the wrath of Satan (I.e., persecution). Just as God poured out his wrath upon Egypt, while the children of Israel were spared the plagues in Goshen because of their covenantal relationship with Yahweh, in the same way, those who have the testimony of Jesus will be exempt from the wrath of God, as they are not its target, and He has very precise aim. In every case in the Book of Revelation where the wrath of God is described as being poured out on mankind, it is always directed at the wicked, those who bear the mark of the Beast, the Great Whore and those who associate with her, etc.

Acts-celerater Posts: 787 **7/3/17 11:17 am**

This particular subject has always been troublesome to me. I have always been solidly post- tribe in my belief about the 2nd coming, so of course I have ran into conflict with the COG and AG doctrinal teachings on the subject.

So I have learned to pretty much avoid the subject and will only discuss it if someone else brings it up. Which isn't exactly a good thing when you feel like you could easily point out where someone is in error.

Of course, if I'm wrong and the Lord does come before the tribulation I surely won't complain. But what if the post-trib view is correct? Do you think you can endure such a time having spent no time in preparation for it? To me, that's something serious that needs to be accounted for.

One thing I never understood about this subject is how the church could be so divided on it. The pre-trib doctrine itself is relatively young compared to other church doctrines,having been in existence for only a couple of hundred years. A careful, detailed study of the origins of the belief might reveal more then we wish to deal with,IMO.

At any rate, I personally believe that when we see Damascus leveled, this is the start of it all.
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“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham

Acts-dicted Posts: 9027 **7/3/17 1:00 pm**

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **7/3/17 3:00 pm**

They is only ONE TRIGGER, Dean. When the Father tells the Son it'll happen, not for or after, just at that moment when the trumpet sounds.

Re: We subscribe to Rosenthal's

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **7/3/17 3:02 pm**

Acts-dicted Posts: 8065 **7/3/17 6:46 pm**

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **7/3/17 8:20 pm**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **7/4/17 11:36 am**

The exact date of Jesus' return is said in Scripture to be contingent upon several things, such as the gospel being preached into all nations as a witness, the rise of the Antichrist, Armageddon, etc.

As to the secret rapture teaching, even if one holds to that theory, unless one happens to be a predeterminist, logically, one must affirm true contingency with regard to the future.

Friendly Face Posts: 346 **7/4/17 12:35 pm**

I would say it was the imposition of taxation by the Romans upon Israel for building up the city of
Rome.
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Sanctification is subsequent to the new birth

Friendly Face Posts: 346 **7/4/17 12:36 pm**

The Jews rebelled against the taxation and Roman heavy hands came upon Israel, especially Jerusalem and started 7 years of tribulation.
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Sanctification is subsequent to the new birth