Actscelerate.com

Forbid not to speak in tongues? How quiet should it be?

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/17/14 9:26 pm**

Pastors/elders/teachers: Practically speaking, how would you deal with someone in your church who prays or praises God in tongues during worship, not loud enough to 'take over' the service (like a message in tongues for instance), but not quietly enough to avoid being heard by those around him or her? Do you make a general announcement or perhaps include in a sermon that people must not speak in tongues loud enough for others around them to hear unless they are going to give a message in tongues to the entire congregation? Do you see it as a non-issue ultimately, and just let folks pray or praise God in tongues relatively quietly, as long as they are not doing so loudly enough to interrupt the rest of the congregation?

I agree that what we call 'a message in tongues' should be interpreted when possible, but even then, what if no one receives or gives the interpretation? Is the congregation's worship therefore invalidated and contrary to apostolic doctrine, since they have 'allowed' someone to speak in tongues without an interpretation?

How quiet is quiet enough to not require an interpretation? Do we stop the service if someone prays or praises a bit too loudly in tongues, and wait for the interpretation? Again, what if no one then gives the interpretation? I have searched several commentaries, and I am not finding any which speak specifically to the issue of how quiet speaking in tongues must be in order to not require interpretation.

Context: A Baptist lady who has visited my church a few times with her Pentecostal husband is insistent that our church is in violation of Scripture because we allow people to speak in tongues like this without interpretation. My sense is that this lady just has a strong bias against Pentecostalism (she talks a lot about how many Baptist preachers there have been in her family, and how they all share the same concern about tongues with no interpretation) and that she mainly just is fearful of what is foreign to her and just wants to control and quench the Holy Spirit in others because it makes her uncomfortable. She knows what speaking in tongues is and claims she is okay with it as long as it is always interpreted, so it is not the case that she is ignorant and unlearned like the ones Paul referred to in 1 Cor 14.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/17/14 10:29 pm**

(Also, this lady says it is out of order for me or anyone else to pray in the altars in tongues without an interpretation. I don't pray in tongues loudly except when I have a message in tongues to share, but there are times when I'm praying or leading worship when I will worship in tongues for a while).

Though I am not convinced she is right in accusing our worship of being out of order, I do want to give her a good answer to her questions, even though I don't feel she is sincerely concerned about anything really except prejudice, fear and control of others.

Acts-dicted Posts: 9027 **1/17/14 10:31 pm**

It's a non-issue if it's not disruptive. Scripture doesn't mandate that prayer in the Spirit be interpreted...only messages to the congregation.
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!

My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/17/14 10:44 pm**

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5657 **1/18/14 3:33 am**

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5657 **1/18/14 3:41 am**

My first instinct is to point her to the examples of multiple people praising and speaking in tongues in concert in the book of Acts as evidence that such IS permissible, and that understanding Paul as forbidding such outright would not harmonize with the record of Luke -- which includes the ministry of Paul himself. If she can accept that then perhaps you can begin to teach on the different forms and functions speaking in tongues may take. That should lead to a honest consideration, if not affirmation, of the difference between personal tongues (not necessarily private, or quiet, tongues) versus corporate tongues. And of course pray that she will be filled with the Spirit, and that tongues will manifest in her life in a very real, personal, and edifying way so that then she will know for herself the beauty, power, and purpose of tongues for all believers.
_________________
Poimen
Bro. Christopher

Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay."

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **1/18/14 3:49 am**

I don't see a distinction between prayer and messages to the congregation in the text, either. Some interpretations of tongues are prayers.

How you view this has a lot to do with your church background. There are different types of Pentecostal churches. In some of them, everyone prays out loud at the same time. In some of these churches, people are used to praying in tongues not loud enough for it to be a message, during he song service or when everyone else is praying in tongues.

In other Pentecostal churches, people don't pray all at the same time, and you don't hear people praying in tongues while everyone else is praying or during the song service.

And if you have never been in a Pentecostal church, chances are, not everyone prays at the same time.

So if you are used to a church where people don't pray at the same time, either Pentecostal or not, IMO, it seems more natural to insist on an interpretation. If you are used to everyone praying at the same time, then saying that Paul's instructions only apply to a message spoken out to the congregation may make sense to you.

But here is my question, where is the Biblical justification for everyone praying at the same time. I've heard people try to make a case from Acts 4, where 'they' all prayed, but we are told their prayer. Were they all praying at the same time in unison for God to stretch out His hand to do signs and wonders? That's not what we see when everyone prays something different at the same time.

I Corinthians 14:26 says to let all things be done unto edifying. If other people in the church are praying at the same time and you can't hear any individual, how is that prayer being done in a way that edifies others in the church? Why not take turns praying and then you can agree by saying 'amen'? That's praying in an edifying manner. If you pray while everyone else is praying, just like praying in tongues, others can't say 'amen' because they don't know what you are saying. You may be giving thanks well, but the other is not edified.

I believe Paul's instructions... the commandments of the Lord... in verses 27-28 apply to prayer in tongues whether mumbled quietly or spoken loudly. If someone speaks in a tongue, and no one interprets, then everyone knows to do something else besides tongues-- prophesy, sing, teach. There's no interpretation going on.

If people are mumbling in tongues, the unlearned or unbeliever will likely still say 'ye are mad' just as much as if the tongues were spoken out loudly.
_________________
Link

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13680 **1/18/14 7:13 am**

Some of the problems I have witnessed is when the speaker doesn't know the difference between speaking to edify himself and speaking a message to the church. They speak loudly and there is no interpretation. I have wondered if it is just a desire for their tongues be one of those that could be interpreted. Maybe if I speak in tongues loudly and it gets interpreted, I will gain some sort of respect. I don't know the heart of anybody but it just appears that way.

This is not a new problem. Paul had to address abuses also.

Some thoughts...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **1/18/14 7:47 am**

First, you know BY THE SPIRIT the answers the these questions, I imagine. You already know within yourself that praying in tongues is perfectly acceptable. Trust the Spirit. He always agrees with His word--even if He does not always agree with the interpretations others give His word.

Second, as the pastor, I believe that you have to discern when a message is for the congregation or is just praise/prayer. One of my "pet peeves" is when an entire service grinds to a halt as we beseech and plead and wait and wait (it seems) for someone, anyone, please! interpret this message.

NO. If you discern that it is not meant to be a message (even if the person giving the message might think so), you keep moving, perhaps with an exhortation that "our brother is just praising the Lord," etc.

On the Day of Pentecost, before they went into the streets and preached to those from other nations, they spoke in tongues that they almost certainly did not understand (them being unlearned men).

How did Peter know that those at Cornelius' house had received the Holy Ghost if they didn't speak aloud?

If we speak aloud when we receive the Holy Ghost (and I don't recall there ever being a spiritual interpretation, although I have heard of foreigners recognizing the language), then why do we suddenly have to clam up unless and until we have a message for the entire congregation?

Don't let a non-Pentecostal tell you how to be Pentecostal! She doesn't have it and is looking for ways to justify her not having it.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13680 **1/18/14 7:53 am**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/18/14 12:10 pm**

I am not intimidated by this lady's objections to Pentecostalism. I have certainly heard these kinds of objections before. At my previous church (which was a lot more subdued/dead than my present one), some Baptists quit because they heard me praying in tongues while anointing and praying for the sick around the altar. Their objection was that tongues were always supposed to be interpreted. What seemed funny to me both then and now is that they would go so far as to leave a church they otherwise loved over something that they claimed they believed in (tongues). Their only real issue was that some were not following the Spirit in the way they felt the Spirit HAD to move. And yet, the fact that not all prophesied one by one when we came together didn't bother them at all. And yet to them, if tongues ever occurred without an interpretation, they were ready to leave the church. This is why I say their real problems were religious prejudice, fear and control issues.

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **1/18/14 12:17 pm**

Re: Some thoughts...

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **1/19/14 4:53 am**

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13680 **1/19/14 9:51 am**

1 Corinthians 14:19: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

It seems to me that ten thousand words by the Holy Spirit that is interpreted would be more beneficial than five words spoken by Paul. The point is, obviously, the ten thousand words that he is referring to are not interpreted. He is asking for that type of tongues to be limited but not forbidden. I am guessing. What do y'all think?

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **1/19/14 11:51 am**

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **1/19/14 11:53 am**

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **1/19/14 2:12 pm**

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **1/19/14 4:52 pm**

Not sure this will help, but. . .

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5431 **1/20/14 8:59 am**

when I was a child I was very impressed by the man who took me to church. Whenever I was in the service upstairs, this man would sometimes prophesy during the service ( no tongues, just prophecy). He seemed to be the only one in the church who did that, everyone else gave "messages" in tongues which were then interepreted, usually by the pastor but almost always by someone else other than the speaker.

After I grew up and started in the ministry myself, I spoke with my pastor about this man and how impressed I was with him going beyond tongues and prophesying. My pastor chuckled.

He told me the man's wife had come to him once very agitated and upset. She was upset because every time they had an argument at home that resulted in a stalemate, he would come to church that Sunday morning and prophesy. She was upset because that was supposed to mean that he was more spiritual than her, and that she should give in to his side of things.

I was shocked when my pastor shared this with me, but it also helped me put some things in perspective. Sometimes people do things in church because they want to appear more spiritual in the eyes of other people, or they want affirmation that they are not getting elsewhere. It's sad, but true.
_________________
Randy Johnson, Pastor
Ickesburg Church of God
85 Tuscarora Path
Ickesburg, Pennsylvania

Re: Not sure this will help, but. . .

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **1/22/14 10:55 pm**