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 Re: Kevin Loyd, |
Wellda |
| String Bender55 wrote: | | Telecaster wrote: | | String Bender55 wrote: | | I did not think I would have to spell it out that explicitly. I should have know by your screen name that I should have. You are only a layman. SB55 |
Then if he's disqualified from his opinion as a layman, then as a simple stringbender, you're disqualified from making ministry decisions as it pertains to evangelism.
If you think that's unfair, so is your statement. Agree or disagree, there is no room for ridiculing. |
Since you are ONLY a Telecaster and I am a Stratocaster. I will cut you some slack.
My whole point is this.
Do not have such a closed mind about DIFFERENT ways to reach people that you become so stuck in the 50's that you can't move in different directions. So the bottom line is for me is this. Even The Bible tells of people who are NOT RIGHT reaching people who are lost.
Example:
A Pastor cheating with his secertary and dancing and drinking out on the town preaches a sermon on a Sunday morning where 3 people give their heart to God.
Are those 3 any less saved because the Pastor sinned? NO! It is the same way with music. What difference does it make WHAT brings the sinners in to hear the word, whether it is a Bike giveaway or HOT music.
It makes NO difference as long as God does what he does through the Holy Spirit.
You need to buy a Strat and Rock out! Jam for the lamb and then you will understand what it is all about. |
String.... what is strange fire? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1539
3/2/07 1:31 pm
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| Re: Kevin Loyd, |
String Bender55 |
| Layperson wrote: | | String Bender55 wrote: | | Layperson wrote: | [quote="String Bender55
In my mind this statement tells us to use "ANY MEANS NECESSARY" to achieve this goal.
end of quote]
Do you realize what you just said? Does that include bring sin into the house of God? |
I said what I meant.
There is a line to be drawn. Porn, beer and other things are NOT welcome in our Church.
I remember Bobby Rose held a drawing on Easter Sunday. he gave away a Bicycle in Sunday service. Ever kid under 13 was entered. Guess what, he got a lot of guff for that. Let me tell you about that Sunday service. There were probably 50 little kids there that day hoping to win that bike.
Guess what? Everyone of those kid brought their parents with them. So there was about 125 people there who would never have graced the door steps with their presence. Was that sin? No! Bobby Rose used any means necessary to bring in the lost, including giving away a bike.
My statement should be taken as BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY within morally responsible thinking.
I did not think I would have to spell it out that explicitly. I should have know by your screen name that I should have. You are only a layman.
SB55 |
Wellll.. nowwww.... The reason I asked is that this thread is about bringing punk rock groups (or some such junk) into the church as worship groups. I just thought from your statement that you may be one of them. Sorry if I misjudged you. The bike deal is ok... |
OK, the Punk Band would be OK too. Punk music is usually LOUD 2 or 3 chord stuff with a hard rocking beat. So if we were trying to reach Punkers, why not have a PUNK CHRISTIAN BAND?
I am sure my parents thought I was out of my mind when I did some of the music I loved as Christian music. Guess what. The kids we played for LOVED IT! We had a good band and played Christian Rock. So all of these other Music genre's are just as important as the people who listen to them.
I might not like RAP, but if all it took to reach my 27 year old Son was a RAP guy screaming about Jesus, then I would pay the bands fee just to get him in Church to hear them.
GET MY POINT?
No matter what kind of music reaches him (Or any lost person for that matter) God rejoices with every person who accepts Jesus into their hearts.
Punk band? WHO CARES?
Christian country? WHO CARES?
Bluegrass? WHO CARES?
As long as the message get across.
Bottom line. If it lifts up Jesus and people have life changing events, then it is ALL GOOD. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5681
3/2/07 2:13 pm
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| Re: Kevin Loyd, |
String Bender55 |
| Wellda wrote: | | String Bender55 wrote: | | Telecaster wrote: | | String Bender55 wrote: | | I did not think I would have to spell it out that explicitly. I should have know by your screen name that I should have. You are only a layman. SB55 |
Then if he's disqualified from his opinion as a layman, then as a simple stringbender, you're disqualified from making ministry decisions as it pertains to evangelism.
If you think that's unfair, so is your statement. Agree or disagree, there is no room for ridiculing. |
Since you are ONLY a Telecaster and I am a Stratocaster. I will cut you some slack.
My whole point is this.
Do not have such a closed mind about DIFFERENT ways to reach people that you become so stuck in the 50's that you can't move in different directions. So the bottom line is for me is this. Even The Bible tells of people who are NOT RIGHT reaching people who are lost.
Example:
A Pastor cheating with his secertary and dancing and drinking out on the town preaches a sermon on a Sunday morning where 3 people give their heart to God.
Are those 3 any less saved because the Pastor sinned? NO! It is the same way with music. What difference does it make WHAT brings the sinners in to hear the word, whether it is a Bike giveaway or HOT music.
It makes NO difference as long as God does what he does through the Holy Spirit.
You need to buy a Strat and Rock out! Jam for the lamb and then you will understand what it is all about. |
String.... what is strange fire? |
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Please explain. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5681
3/2/07 2:15 pm
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| Re: Kevin Loyd, |
Telecaster |
| String Bender55 wrote: | | Telecaster wrote: | | String Bender55 wrote: | | I did not think I would have to spell it out that explicitly. I should have know by your screen name that I should have. You are only a layman. SB55 |
Then if he's disqualified from his opinion as a layman, then as a simple stringbender, you're disqualified from making ministry decisions as it pertains to evangelism.
If you think that's unfair, so is your statement. Agree or disagree, there is no room for ridiculing. |
Since you are ONLY a Telecaster and I am a Stratocaster. I will cut you some slack.
My whole point is this.
Do not have such a closed mind about DIFFERENT ways to reach people that you become so stuck in the 50's that you can't move in different directions. So the bottom line is for me is this. Even The Bible tells of people who are NOT RIGHT reaching people who are lost.
Example:
A Pastor cheating with his secertary and dancing and drinking out on the town preaches a sermon on a Sunday morning where 3 people give their heart to God.
Are those 3 any less saved because the Pastor sinned? NO! It is the same way with music. What difference does it make WHAT brings the sinners in to hear the word, whether it is a Bike giveaway or HOT music.
It makes NO difference as long as God does what he does through the Holy Spirit.
You need to buy a Strat and Rock out! Jam for the lamb and then you will understand what it is all about. |
From one Fender to another, I agree. I want a Strat so bad. I also agree that God can and will use anyone or anything to get His point across. Now before someone says, see God can use anything . . . let me add, He's God. He can do whatever He wants. He made a donkey talk to Balaam. Seriously He can do whatever, but when I read the Word, we're not given that same authority. Witnessing and living right is spelled out pretty concrete and remaining seperate, not from sinners, but from the world's influence is what we're called to do.
I'll agree too many churches are stuck in the 50's, and some farther back than that. I just think we have to be careful what we allow into the house of God because of the connotations and doors it opens for other things. It creates confusion among people, which God isn't the author of, and it manipulates emotions for responses. We all know we ca n't serve God off emotions alone.
I'm all about being new and using media and technology to incorporate God's Word in a way that relates to people. But as I've said before, I can't see incorporating anything in the place of worship, even if it's just one song. There are too many great Christian songs to be played and many others to be written.
And that's all the Tele tells. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1882
3/2/07 2:18 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
This is from today's WiredChurches.com release (a ministry-oriented publication of Granger Community Church):
| Quote: | People sometimes ask me, “How can you use a secular song in your services? How can you let your team sing a song by Hoobastank? Or Evanescence? Or the Killers?” [Whoa. You guys actually do that kind of music there? Yes. Yes, we do.]
But ask yourself: What, precisely, makes a song secular or Christian? Is it the lyrics? The person singing it? The style of music? Madeleine L’Engle had an interesting statement in her book, Walking on Water: “To look at a work of art and then to make a judgment as to ... whether or not it is Christian is presumptuous. It is something we cannot know in any conclusive way. We can know only if it speaks within our own hearts and leads us to living more deeply with Christ in God.”
For the sake of simplicity, let’s say secular music refers to popular songs written by a mainstream artist without any specific Christ-honoring intent. The songs aren’t about Jesus. The singer isn’t a Christian artist. And yet … sometimes, when I’m in my car with (yes, secular) music blaring, God uses the lyrics of a song to speak deeply to my heart. Really.
Here is what I believe: I think it is permissible – even advisable – to use music in the service that doesn’t have an obvious Christian message. Why? To craft for our guests a seamless experience that builds toward a goal. The goal of reaching them with the news that they matter to God, right here, right now, whatever their circumstances.
I challenge you to see your entire service as one seamless message comprising different elements, all of which are focused on helping people take their next steps toward Christ. Paul did this when he quoted from a famous poet of his day (Acts 17:28). He wasn’t saying, “I agree with everything this poet wrote.” He wasn’t saying, “Read all of his poems.” He was just using a well-known secular poem to connect with his listeners in order to help make a change in their lives.
I know, I know. To some of you, this seems like radical stuff. But at times you will have to speak the “foreign language” of our culture in order to reach the people in it. This is not optional: it is your job to learn the language, signs, symbols, and customs of the culture – and then use what you learn to build a bridge back to God. When people ask how we can use secular music in our services, I say, “How can we not?” |
I don't think this really addresses the objections raised in this thread any better than the posters here have, but it's certainly a succint defense of it. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
3/2/07 6:00 pm
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KevinLloyd |
| tripsD wrote: | This is from today's WiredChurches.com release (a ministry-oriented publication of Granger Community Church):
| Quote: | People sometimes ask me, ?How can you use a secular song in your services? How can you let your team sing a song by Hoobastank? Or Evanescence? Or the Killers?? [Whoa. You guys actually do that kind of music there? Yes. Yes, we do.]
But ask yourself: What, precisely, makes a song secular or Christian? Is it the lyrics? The person singing it? The style of music? Madeleine L?Engle had an interesting statement in her book, Walking on Water: ?To look at a work of art and then to make a judgment as to ... whether or not it is Christian is presumptuous. It is something we cannot know in any conclusive way. We can know only if it speaks within our own hearts and leads us to living more deeply with Christ in God.?
For the sake of simplicity, let?s say secular music refers to popular songs written by a mainstream artist without any specific Christ-honoring intent. The songs aren?t about Jesus. The singer isn?t a Christian artist. And yet ? sometimes, when I?m in my car with (yes, secular) music blaring, God uses the lyrics of a song to speak deeply to my heart. Really.
Here is what I believe: I think it is permissible ? even advisable ? to use music in the service that doesn?t have an obvious Christian message. Why? To craft for our guests a seamless experience that builds toward a goal. The goal of reaching them with the news that they matter to God, right here, right now, whatever their circumstances.
I challenge you to see your entire service as one seamless message comprising different elements, all of which are focused on helping people take their next steps toward Christ. Paul did this when he quoted from a famous poet of his day (Acts 17:28). He wasn?t saying, ?I agree with everything this poet wrote.? He wasn?t saying, ?Read all of his poems.? He was just using a well-known secular poem to connect with his listeners in order to help make a change in their lives.
I know, I know. To some of you, this seems like radical stuff. But at times you will have to speak the ?foreign language? of our culture in order to reach the people in it. This is not optional: it is your job to learn the language, signs, symbols, and customs of the culture ? and then use what you learn to build a bridge back to God. When people ask how we can use secular music in our services, I say, ?How can we not?? |
I don't think this really addresses the objections raised in this thread any better than the posters here have, but it's certainly a succint defense of it. |
Great post. I hadn't read that.
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/3/07 8:32 am
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| I think stringbender has shown |
c6thplayer1 |
| his true colors.... |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
3/3/07 1:38 pm
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| Re: I think stringbender has shown |
String Bender55 |
| c6thplayer1 wrote: | | his true colors.... |
I will take that as a compliment coming from you.  |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5681
3/3/07 8:40 pm
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| Anybody hear the new... |
KevinLloyd |
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| RE: TripsD response |
Charlie Metz |
| Quote: | | I don't think this really addresses the objections raised in this thread any better than the posters here have, but it's certainly a succint defense of it |
That settles it then! I am glad that we can find defenses of actions in boks other than the Bible and say that with authority this person said it is ok so let's do it!
Sad day when the modern church has to find the Bible and wipe the dust off of it to find out what we are supposed to do in church.
Someone in an earlier post mentioned that God can do anything anytime...that is correct. But, only God has the perrogative to do those things...not man. We are expected to strive for holiness. How can we have the audacity to think we can do whatever we want anytime we want?
_________________
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13-14 |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 705
3/4/07 8:05 am
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| experience |
Charlie Metz |
| Quote: | | Daughtry song? "It's Not Over." Great song for a worship experience. |
What is worship about? Who is it for? Answer that question and I think we get to the root of this thread.
_________________
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13-14 |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 705
3/4/07 8:06 am
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| Re: experience |
KevinLloyd |
| COGCharlie wrote: | | Quote: | | Daughtry song? "It's Not Over." Great song for a worship experience. |
What is worship about? Who is it for? Answer that question and I think we get to the root of this thread. |
Worship is aimed towards God. I worship with music, with the way that I put programs together, with the way that I do things to target & engage unchurched, I worship w/ the way that I live. Hopefully everything that I do is worship...and it's not tied to something as lame as what kind of music I enjoy listening to.
Sunday's for us serve a purpose: TO ENGAGE - to engage the hearts, minds, attention of those who love Christ & to engage the hearts, minds, attention of those who are seekers.
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/4/07 9:41 am
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| Re: RE: TripsD response |
String Bender55 |
| COGCharlie wrote: | | Quote: | | I don't think this really addresses the objections raised in this thread any better than the posters here have, but it's certainly a succint defense of it |
That settles it then! I am glad that we can find defenses of actions in boks other than the Bible and say that with authority this person said it is ok so let's do it!
Sad day when the modern church has to find the Bible and wipe the dust off of it to find out what we are supposed to do in church.
Someone in an earlier post mentioned that God can do anything anytime...that is correct. But, only God has the perrogative to do those things...not man. We are expected to strive for holiness. How can we have the audacity to think we can do whatever we want anytime we want? |
On this subject, I wish your mouth was as closed as your mind. We would all be better off. Who are you to Judge anyone. My judge is God, and God alone.
This is what I think. Like the bible says God uses many. Even unbelievers to convey his message. Who are you to judge what is right or wrong? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5681
3/4/07 1:22 pm
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| It is written: |
wvwatchman |
"There is none that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God."
Romans 3:11
Either God is lying or your man-made mission is wrong. There are no seekers. I guess it is an attempt to make the unchurched, I mean heathen feel comfortable. But that is just what the outdated traditional Bible says.
If God changes not, then He is a hypocrite for expecting His church to change with every wind that blows. And He is not a hypocrite so I guess we know who errs.
Jesus said that the world would hate us, since it hated Him. I guess He was old fashioned also. If you are a preacher and you are the toast of the town, there is something wrong with you and your message. Because the WORD OF GOD says you WILL be hated.
Not my opinion.
_________________
Amos 8:11-12
John 12:32 |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 59
3/4/07 1:49 pm
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| Re: RE: TripsD response |
Dave Dorsey |
| COGCharlie wrote: | | That settles it then! I am glad that we can find defenses of actions in boks other than the Bible and say that with authority this person said it is ok so let's do it! |
You can't find an accusation about it in the Bible. Why should I have to find a defense?
But either way, you must not have read what I posted, because it was a defense from the Word of God.
Why is this such an issue? If people are bearing fruit singing from the redbacks, praise God! If people are bearing fruit performing secular music, praise God! Who cares how Christ is preached, so long as He is preached? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
3/4/07 2:03 pm
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| i had so many different replies... |
J Mack Taylor |
i was gonna say it would be a great idea to get some of the more formed ladies in the church to help us do a wet tshirt contest to draw ppl in, and even agreed that the 50 cent beer night would draw ppl in.
but in all honesty, he scripture tells us what will draw ppl into our churches:
If Jesus is lifted up. that means if He is raised as the banner, if His life is exemplified in the lives of the pulpit AND the pews!
If Jesus is preached and Him crucified, and the fact that His crucifixion means life for us, it is the message of Hope that the world is looking for.
but they cant see Jesus in our churches anymore. The enemy has fooled us into thinking we have to fight with each other on semantics, that we have to water down our message, and become more like the world in order to meet them where they are.
Right, Jesus went where the sinners were to reach them, but He never once compromised His Holiness, He remained the Holy One of God. His message remained the same.
I watch as our members become so callus, so scripturally hardened, and worldly. I battle off discouragement with each rising sun, because of the lack of holiness among our church of God members. and how can they not fall victim? when our ministers know so little about the real Jesus life?
I have never been so discouraged about the direction of our great church, as i am at this very minute, having read this thread.
I stand before youth groups and children in my local church each week, and before countless thousands around our country in camps and krusades. I see their faces, and i wonder, who will tell them the truth? who will throw personal conviction aside and preach the truth of the scripture to these precious ones?
Their souls are on my head. If i stand before them and water down the truth just because it suits my personal convictions, then i will stand before a righteous ( and might i add, Holy ) God on the day of Judgement, and stand accountable for their very souls.
there are a great many things that i believe because of my convictions, but that i cannot bring myself to preach as Gospel when i stand before them.
I see those precious faces each week, and i cant help but fear, that maybe i wont reach them, maybe too much of the world has overtaken them, and i cant get thru anymore, especially given that most of the church has fallen away from the truth, and won't support the truth i bring to them.
I see young people whom have had the very fire of God burning in their hearts, that because of the false teachings of the world, that have found their way into the church, have turned their hearts from God.
we argue about whom has won more souls, the righteous or the worldly, when the sad fact that every pastor can attest to is that our doors are a revolving door in the church, that more are leaving the church than are staying, we are not winning more than we are losing in this the last day.
but we can sit here and get lost in the fight over who is more spiritual, and watch our children go to hell, or we can do what we are called to do, and that is give our all for Christ, because He gave all for us. |
New Member
Posts: 19
3/4/07 2:40 pm
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| Re: It is written: |
KevinLloyd |
| wvwatchman wrote: | "There is none that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God."
Romans 3:11
Either God is lying or your man-made mission is wrong. There are no seekers. |
What we are all seekers...no? I hope that I don't stop seeking.
| wvwatchman wrote: |
I guess it is an attempt to make the unchurched, I mean heathen feel comfortable. But that is just what the outdated traditional Bible says.
If God changes not, then He is a hypocrite for expecting His church to change with every wind that blows. And He is not a hypocrite so I guess we know who errs.
Jesus said that the world would hate us, since it hated Him. I guess He was old fashioned also. If you are a preacher and you are the toast of the town, there is something wrong with you and your message. Because the WORD OF GOD says you WILL be hated.
Not my opinion. |
First off--enjoy your martyrdom.
Now, in regards to making people feel "comfortable" as you say. Well, yes & no. We live in a paradox of sorts. I want our programs to make people feel as comfortable as they can. We work hard to make sure that parking lot, greeters, music, presentation, temperature, etc are excellent and done w/ unchurched in mind. However, the goal of WHAT is communicated is to make them feel uncomfortable in their sin. If I don't do that...present the truth...I'm not doing my job. If people aren't confronted w/ their sin, we're wasting our time. So I live...and the way I do church lives in a paradox...in the tension.
Go ahead and accuse me of making people comfortable...but not unless you know the whole truth.
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/4/07 2:41 pm
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| Re: It is written: |
Charlie Metz |
| Quote: | On this subject, I wish your mouth was as closed as your mind. We would all be better off. Who are you to Judge anyone. My judge is God, and God alone.
This is what I think. Like the bible says God uses many. Even unbelievers to convey his message. Who are you to judge what is right or wrong? |
First off you are rude, offensive and sinning by telling me to shut my mouth. But, I still love you brother even though you offended me. I did not once judge you. If you feel the heat because of your actions then so be it. I questioned your actions, not your heart for people. I think it is great that people will go great lengths to reach the lost. I think though in their desire to go that extra stretch, that they do things that should be questioned. By the way, I don't think you should shut your mouth just because you play music that doesn't worship God of lift up Jesus (as scripture commands) when we are in church.
| Quote: | Now, in regards to making people feel "comfortable" as you say. Well, yes & no. We live in a paradox of sorts. I want our programs to make people feel as comfortable as they can. We work hard to make sure that parking lot, greeters, music, presentation, temperature, etc are excellent and done w/ unchurched in mind. However, the goal of WHAT is communicated is to make them feel uncomfortable in their sin. If I don't do that...present the truth...I'm not doing my job. If people aren't confronted w/ their sin, we're wasting our time. So I live...and the way I do church lives in a paradox...in the tension.
Go ahead and accuse me of making people comfortable...but not unless you know the whole truth. |
When do you turn on/off your comfortability switch? (This is a serious question not meant to be read as sarcasm). When do you decide when someone needs to feel comfortable then uncomfortable? When do you decide to compromise some things you do in church then stand on some things you do? I am confused by what you do. A church should be so holy by the people that enter those doors, the others who enter them with them should feel that something is different... If you are only waiting for your words to "punch them in the throat" then you must be one amazing speaker! 80% of what people hear they forget in the first 30 minutes after leaving. So, if they are feeling comfortable and unchallenged by what we do during that short 1 - 2 hours window we have them, then you have helped them to lose their souls.
Do you preach anything about hell, judgment, holy living, modesty, lifestyle and those things? Just curious how far you go in your preaching.[/quote]
_________________
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13-14 |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 705
3/4/07 5:14 pm
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| Re: It is written: |
wvwatchman |
| Quote: | | First off--enjoy your martyrdom. |
???????
| Quote: | | Now, in regards to making people feel "comfortable" as you say. Well, yes & no. We live in a paradox of sorts. I want our programs to make people feel as comfortable as they can. We work hard to make sure that parking lot, greeters, music, presentation, temperature, etc are excellent and done w/ unchurched in mind. |
How does this line up with scripture? Does listening to Satan glorifying music IN God's house make them comfortable? If you're a/c breaks one sunday morning would you call off service cause its too hot? They would surely not be comfotable in sweltering heat. What about the thousands in central and south america that walk for hours to church to sit in a one room schoolhouse fighting scorpions and rattlesnakes and the such on the way and find out all that is there is the unadulterated word of God? No donuts, no coffee, no parking lots, or ushers, just folk who love the Lord with all there mind, body and soul. Could that be why they have a much deeper walk with the Lord than the "churched" in america? They don't use the term "unchurched" down there. They use sin, like God uses. They don't have seeker-friendly programs down there, like I said earlier there are none. They don't have those in the "homosexual deathstyle" taking over Churches down there. Or in any other part of the world except in America where we have Christianettes in Bassinettes listening to Sermonettes. And all too many well-intentioned businessmen who need to spend more time shut in with Jesus that are willing to serve these babies. If the Preachers would step out from behind their plexi-glass pulpits and preach the Word, Be instant in season out of season, We MIGHT see a revival in the Land. But instead, since we haven't heard the heart of God, we offer up a new program, that is wholly un-Biblical. Or we haven't been delivered from un-Godly, sinful music ourselves, so we offer it to our consumers. Get back to the Bible Brother, and throw out all of that growth garbage and seek the face of Jesus. Unless HE builds the House, they labor in vain that build it.
I appreciate your zeal for the Lost, start by calling them what they are"sinners" you help no one out by calling them unchurched, as if churching them has any help in eternity. Get into the Word of God and stop compromising,sinning, by allowing this trash to infiltrate God's House. You will give an account.
LIFT JESUS HIGHER and upon this rock HE will build HIS church, then you will say"Look what the LORD has done"
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Amos 8:11-12
John 12:32 |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 59
3/4/07 6:03 pm
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| Re: It is written: |
KevinLloyd |
| wvwatchman wrote: | | Quote: | | First off--enjoy your martyrdom. |
???????
| Quote: | | Now, in regards to making people feel "comfortable" as you say. Well, yes & no. We live in a paradox of sorts. I want our programs to make people feel as comfortable as they can. We work hard to make sure that parking lot, greeters, music, presentation, temperature, etc are excellent and done w/ unchurched in mind. |
How does this line up with scripture? Does listening to Satan glorifying music IN God's house make them comfortable? If you're a/c breaks one sunday morning would you call off service cause its too hot? They would surely not be comfotable in sweltering heat. What about the thousands in central and south america that walk for hours to church to sit in a one room schoolhouse fighting scorpions and rattlesnakes and the such on the way and find out all that is there is the unadulterated word of God? No donuts, no coffee, no parking lots, or ushers, just folk who love the Lord with all there mind, body and soul. Could that be why they have a much deeper walk with the Lord than the "churched" in america? They don't use the term "unchurched" down there. They use sin, like God uses. They don't have seeker-friendly programs down there, like I said earlier there are none. They don't have those in the "homosexual deathstyle" taking over Churches down there. Or in any other part of the world except in America where we have Christianettes in Bassinettes listening to Sermonettes. And all too many well-intentioned businessmen who need to spend more time shut in with Jesus that are willing to serve these babies. If the Preachers would step out from behind their plexi-glass pulpits and preach the Word, Be instant in season out of season, We MIGHT see a revival in the Land. But instead, since we haven't heard the heart of God, we offer up a new program, that is wholly un-Biblical. Or we haven't been delivered from un-Godly, sinful music ourselves, so we offer it to our consumers. Get back to the Bible Brother, and throw out all of that growth garbage and seek the face of Jesus. Unless HE builds the House, they labor in vain that build it.
I appreciate your zeal for the Lost, start by calling them what they are"sinners" you help no one out by calling them unchurched, as if churching them has any help in eternity. Get into the Word of God and stop compromising,sinning, by allowing this trash to infiltrate God's House. You will give an account.
LIFT JESUS HIGHER and upon this rock HE will build HIS church, then you will say"Look what the LORD has done" |
First of all...we don't live in South America. We live here. We do life here. We have church here. I love the people there...but we are trying to reach people in my neighborhood.
Now, and this will be the final thing that I have to say to you. Do not tell me that I am compromising anything when you have no clue what happens at my church. Don't dare tell me that the thing that all of my people have given their lives to is sin. You can take your "you'll give an account" haughtiness and sit on that. We will not talk again. I have much better thing to do with my time and energy than to waste it on someone who does not get what I'm trying to do (along w/ what alot of other people doing), but also someone who doesn't have the grace or people skills to communicate that effectively.
Enjoy your haughtiness.
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/4/07 6:15 pm
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