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 A little Thursday morning optimism about the election ahead (L) |
bonnie knox |
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| Re: A little Thursday morning optimism about the election ahead (L) |
UncleJD |
Thanks Bonnie, that was so uplifting 
I've been thinking the same thing. I don't see a win in this at all. I think the Republican party is about to be fragmented between;
1. Real, traditional conservatives
2. Nationalistic populists (Trump)
3. Neo-Con elitist, big-gov, crony-capitalists (you know, the current establishment bosses)
This fragmentation already exists, obvious from the inability to do anything with a majority in both houses, but I believe it will lead to the end of GOP as a near parity to the Democratic party and end up with at least one new conservative party and depending on how it goes with Trump, possibly a populist/nationalist party. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
1/28/16 10:41 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| Quote: | Unless unforeseen events alter the dynamics of American politics, it’s difficult to imagine conventional Republicans and Trumpkins inhabiting the same space after this is all done.
I look forward to loathing three major political parties. |
Yup. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
1/28/16 11:01 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Tragically, with McCain, Romney and now with a do-nothing-really-conservative congressional majority, the Grand Old Party has made itself increasingly more irrelevant over the past several years. Trump will absolutely seal the fate of the party. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
1/28/16 11:31 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Whigs,
Know Nothings,
Republicans
Good riddance to all.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
1/28/16 11:59 am
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UncleJD |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Whigs,
Know Nothings,
Republicans
Good riddance to all. |
I share the sentiment, but what is the reality of that statement? The way I see it is true socialism on the federal level, and a mix of regional parties at the local level until the federal Democratic party enacts laws to prohibit any opposition. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
1/28/16 12:25 pm
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Cojak |
I have said it all along, this has nothing to do with conservatives, the likes of which we have not seen in many years. I have not seen a high profile, logical, conservative anywhere (may that is an exaggeration, but it how I feel).
Now to the OP, the last two paragraphs seem to say what I feel today:
.................Though probably not enough to satisfy Trumpkins, who will undoubtedly be disappointed. Presidents can’t just slap huge tariffs on other countries without Congress, and they can’t make Mexico pay for border fences, nor take oil from countries in the Middle East, nor will he be able to deport 13 million illegal immigrants. When this becomes a reality, I suspect his fans will still blame the establishment for its lack of willpower, support, and patriotism.
And, of course, finally, Trump might lose the GOP nomination (I still don’t believe he’ll win, but I’m cognizant of the fact that this is probably wishful thinking.) Then, it’s likely that the Republican Party will go back to business as usual. Which is a disaster of whole different kind.  
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http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
1/28/16 12:35 pm
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UncleJD |
| Cojak wrote: | | I have said it all along, this has nothing to do with conservatives, the likes of which we have not seen in many years. I have not seen a high profile, logical, conservative anywhere (may that is an exaggeration, but it how I feel). |
Let's define conservatism first
I believe it is best summed up in these points
1. Small/Limited government
2. Fiscal responsibility, limited spending
3. Liberty
4. social standards based on traditional values
I think Ted Cruz is pretty close to a classical conservative.
I think Rand Paul (not as much as his father) represents the most classical conservative in the group. But his non-interventionist policy is extremely unpopular today to the point that most people don't realize that this was a bedrock position of classical conservatives for over a hundred years (see the Monroe doctrine).
But you are correct that we have not had a true conservative candidate since 1984 |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
1/28/16 1:04 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
I think the article misses the point.
Trump supporters are not abandoning conservatism. Rather they are embracing Trump's rugged NATIONALISM as a vehicle to continue fighting for conservatism.
The GOP establishment and most of the GOP candidates have proven to GOP voters that they will not fight for the country. They will handicap themselves and snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory every time. The conservative voter understands that the nation's actual existence must be preserved before any ideology can be fought for. Trump has convinced 40% of them that he will actually do what the establishment won't.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
1/28/16 1:26 pm
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UncleJD |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | I think the article misses the point.
Trump supporters are not abandoning conservatism. Rather they are embracing Trump's rugged NATIONALISM as a vehicle to continue fighting for conservatism.
The GOP establishment and most of the GOP candidates have proven to GOP voters that they will not fight for the country. They will handicap themselves and snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory every time. The conservative voter understands that the nation's actual existence must be preserved before any ideology can be fought for. Trump has convinced 40% of them that he will actually do what the establishment won't. |
I think the Trump Nationalism is going to bankrupt our country. Can you imagine the price-tag to implement his promises? I don't think it take Donald Trump to bring a solution to our borders. That's what HE wants you to think. I don't know how many times I've read "Only Donald Trump can stop the "invasion"" That is ridiculous, but it hits a low-level/primal fear that he knows can be exploited to give him power. Its called demagoguery.
This isn't meant as a personal attack, just a question. Are you the same Resident Skeptic that used to support Ron Paul and libertarianism? Because Donald Trump is about as far from libertarian as you can get. He's an authoritarian, nationalist. His ideas go WAY beyond the Patriot Act which I thought you were against. Maybe I have you mixed up with another poster, it's been 4 years so its hard to be sure. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
1/28/16 1:42 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| UncleJD wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | I think the article misses the point.
Trump supporters are not abandoning conservatism. Rather they are embracing Trump's rugged NATIONALISM as a vehicle to continue fighting for conservatism.
The GOP establishment and most of the GOP candidates have proven to GOP voters that they will not fight for the country. They will handicap themselves and snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory every time. The conservative voter understands that the nation's actual existence must be preserved before any ideology can be fought for. Trump has convinced 40% of them that he will actually do what the establishment won't. |
I think the Trump Nationalism is going to bankrupt our country. Can you imagine the price-tag to implement his promises? I don't think it take Donald Trump to bring a solution to our borders. That's what HE wants you to think. I don't know how many times I've read "Only Donald Trump can stop the "invasion"" That is ridiculous, but it hits a low-level/primal fear that he knows can be exploited to give him power. Its called demagoguery.
This isn't meant as a personal attack, just a question. Are you the same Resident Skeptic that used to support Ron Paul and libertarianism? Because Donald Trump is about as far from libertarian as you can get. He's an authoritarian, nationalist. His ideas go WAY beyond the Patriot Act which I thought you were against. Maybe I have you mixed up with another poster, it's been 4 years so its hard to be sure. |
I am not saying I support Trump. I am simply explaining the logic of why many conservatives do support him.
As for Trump bankrupting the country...which is cheaper, building the wall or putting millions and millions of illegals on welfare?
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
1/28/16 2:17 pm
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UncleJD |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: |
As for Trump bankrupting the country...which is cheaper, building the wall or putting millions and millions of illegals on welfare? |
Building a Wall
Deporting 11 MILLION people
Raising duties/tariffs so Americans can no longer afford the goods they need, leading to personal debt
Funding some sort of replacement for Obamacare (he doesn't want to get rid of it, he wants to "improve" it)
Raising tax on the job-creators
I could go on. I think he's extremely un-conservative. I don't want to use the term liberal, but he's no conservative. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
1/28/16 2:38 pm
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