Actscelerate.com

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1924 **7/15/13 11:27 am**

You are correct, Bro Bob but I would be very surprised if there are very many churches where the Trustees are not also members of the Elder or Pastor Council as the name may be.

Carolyn Smith

Friendly Face Posts: 120 **7/15/13 11:29 am**

Any purchase of property has to be signed by the State AB and the State Council before a local board of trustees can sign to make a purchase.

No matter how this turned out the State council members (same council members that removed Buck according to the AB) are some of the same men that agreed to loan the money which put the church in debt.
They sign without looking into anything, do not follow up, do not council the pastors and these are the men in charge of the State finances.
When things begin to go down they blame the pastor for bad decisions. If it was not a good idea 6 1/2 years ago they should have never approved the re-finance.
Buck couldn't have borrowed the money if the AB and State council would have said no

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Posts: 2857 **7/15/13 12:11 pm**

Since there clearly were many people who share the responsibility for some bad financial decisions, it does not seem fair that Buck Marshall is the only person whose position (and livelihood) was threatened. The rest seemed to have nothing at stake. So sad.

Whose responsibility?

Friendly Face Posts: 231 **7/15/13 2:56 pm**

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **7/15/13 11:34 pm**

Thanks for reminding me how the local trustees function.
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01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **7/16/13 1:17 am**

Truth is many ministers (Council ready or not) are poor financial managers. Every church should be run debt FREE, or the debt be so low it they lost half their finances, they could still pay the bills.

EVERY pastor should begin his life living debt free. If he didn't he should strive to reach that goal. He should be a teacher for his people to live debt free.

It was the most solid advice my dad ever gave me. (Son, owe no body handle God's money right, I guarantee he will feed you). He lived virtually debt free for the 50 years he pastored. If he could not pay for it, he did not buy it. The same for his churches. If they were in debt when he went, all but one were debt free when he left.

I may have missed a lot of vacations, never drove but one new car, but I was never under the pressure my peers were under.

There is a lot to be said about a council (Isn't that the meaning of the group) advising a pastor with his head in the sky, you needs to save some money before launching into a big building program. etc..

Of course that is just an opinion from experience. Smile

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Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1050 **7/16/13 5:40 am**

Acts-dicted Posts: 7604 **7/16/13 7:21 am**

Seeing my life debated is...interesting

Acts-celerater Posts: 758 **7/18/13 2:43 am**

It's hard to put into words sometimes how strange all this is. I can say that in everything I have done, I was after integrity. My grandmother used to say, "There's no shame in being poor, but there is in being dirty." I couldn't control the economic changes that hit our congregation. I wasn't idle or disengaged with my fiscal responsibility. Should I have acted sooner?....yes...I have already owned that. My point, I guess, is that these were mistakes of the head not the heart. I was trusting God to turn some things around for these people who had lived out the scriptures...these hard times struck faithful, liberal, cheerful givers. Also, I heard the words of those men 3 years ago..."pay the ToT and God will bless you". I believe that still.

I am Pentecostal...I still believe in suddenlies.

So, we were poor so to speak...but we were not dirty. throughout this process I have felt like David holding up Saul's swatch saying, "I am not who you say I am."

My integrity is intact. Perhaps, one day, even state council members and overseers will know that to be true. But, if not, I know who I am, how I have walked and that regardless of the mistakes I made and will make...I am not disposable. There are Giants...but I am not a grasshopper.

Re: Seeing my life debated is...interesting

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **7/18/13 5:46 am**

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Posts: 2857 **7/18/13 5:53 am**

Good post, Buck. The great truth is that you do not have to answer to man. God sees your heart. No MAN knows your heart. With God's help, I believe the best is yet to come for you and your congregation. Please do not let a root of bitterness spring up in your heart. That can destroy a person.

Just thought I would post this here as well

Acts-celerater Posts: 758 **7/18/13 1:24 pm**

I have posted an update...

Go Herehttp://www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=75570

This Board

Acts-celerater Posts: 758 **7/19/13 3:59 pm**

I have to add something here. I have always had a sort of love/hate feeling about actscelerate. During this time...I have to say that this board has helped me in so many ways. Being able to take the events and share my heart to the "church" nationally has been of singular importance. But, the overwhelming support through calls, texts, emails, PM's, FaceBook messages and posts have been so life giving. Not to mention the fact that this thread has had over 22,000 views so far and all related threads are well over 30,000 views is really encouraging. It says...we are concerned. That type of attention is helpful when your wanting to share your heart and perhaps influence change in how we ALL lead. I just wanted to say...thank you. So, I am thankful for this forum....for the people who comprise it.

I am truly grateful.

Re: Whose responsibility?

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **7/19/13 4:43 pm**

Re: Whose responsibility?

Friendly Face Posts: 231 **7/21/13 9:45 pm**

Pastors and finances...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5161 **7/22/13 2:22 am**

Pastors aren't always good with money, but do they need to be?? Pastors need to be good with people, and out of that develop relationships with people who can fill their voids. I think we want pastors to be great at everything, but they just aren't. Yes, they need to be able to handle themselves well in all areas of ministry...finances being one of the biggest responsibilities of a leader of a church. However, I don't need my pastor to be a CPA. I also don't need my pastor to be a musician, tech nerd, or PhD level theologian. They may need to able to handle money, theology, computers, and even music at times, but they don't have to do it all themselves.

I think the culture that tells pastors that 1) they need to be great at everything and 2) they can't let their walls down, contribute to churches having financial problems. If a pastor was told, "dude, you are horrible with money. Find someone in your church (or another pastor friend if needed) to help you with your money" it could be tremendously free-ing as well as fiscally responsible.

There is a young man pastoring 30 minutes from us, and it's his first church. He lost a family because he wanted a debit card for the church checking account. He asked my dad for advise, and my dad told him that no pastor needs a church debit card. We run about 5 times the people and have 4 at least part-time staff members and there is no debit card for the church. We turn in receipts and the clerk writes checks. It was wisdom, however, for that young pastor to ask a more experienced man (pastor or not) for advise on that subject. Lets build HELP into our culture!!

Acts-celerater Posts: 758 **7/27/13 10:48 am**

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **7/27/13 11:17 am**

Acts-celerater Posts: 758 **7/27/13 1:01 pm**

Acts-celerater Posts: 758 **7/30/13 11:16 am**

Sorry Tom Sterbens, I think I hijacked your post...lol!