Actscelerate.com

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **7/20/17 9:35 am**

As a pastor, I never bring up an item for consideration by the church that I don't have a definite desire to see pass. (Why would I even bring it up unless I wanted it to pass?) I also do my very best, as pastor, to give sound reasoning for the church to support the item. Thus far I have never been voted down when I have carefully presented the case for the prayerful consideration of the congregation. The President of the United States, who also is under term limit, and who, as Trump is now realizing, cannot be a dictator as such, has no problem giving his ideas concerning legislation he would like for Congress to pass. One has to wonder why the EC would not want to do the same thing as any good pastor, leader, governor, or president already does.

Now I fully realize that the EC may not agree 100% on a particular item, but it seems to me that these brothers, whom we all love and respect highly enough to elect them to the highest positions in our organization, would most likely have some well-reasoned views as to issues that they have chosen to place on the agenda for consideration. We know that a majority of the EC had to want a particular item to be on the agenda, or it simply would not be.

I personally think it would be great if these highly respected leaders would add their input to the debate/discussion (which, I would hazard to guess, would be a very well-informed, very well-reasoned addition to the discussion). It is not clear to me why they would not want to do such. Even if some gave speeches pro and some gave speeches con, that would still only help to better clarify the issue for the body.

Re: why judgmental

Friendly Face Posts: 496 **7/20/17 11:26 am**

Wayne, I applaud you for your wisdom in handling complex diverse issues in your Church. I don't know how old you are, but I sense wisdom, regardless of age.

Friendly Face Posts: 496 **7/20/17 11:42 am**

Wyatt, I wonder the same thing about drinking in moderation, perhaps moderation is too broad, rather I should state it as having a drink or two. I totally understand the problems with excessive drinking and never taking a drink will ensure one will not be an alcoholic. However, I do side with those that assert the early Church did drink wine.

I really wonder how many people the Church (my background is COGOP, but it applies to COG as well) that gave up because the man made standards were too high for them to achieve. A more gray area would be smoking or casual drinking. Again, I wonder how many totally gave up because they could see no problem with smoking or drinking in moderation.

While we can argue with tremendous empirical data on the dangers of smoking, why do we not also assert the importance of proper diet and exercise to keep the "temple" Holy. That couldn't possibly be because we have more fat preachers than fit ones? I truly see no difference in tobacco and gluttony, except the Bible does specifically refer to gluttony. Yet that little bit of Bible is virtually universally ignored. (Unfortunately, I am not practicing what I "preach" well enough in regards to health).

Personally, I have no desire to smoke, but I do have some Wine and Jack Daniel's in my fridge. I had a serving of Jack Daniels the day I moved in my new home because I was sitting on the front porch and pretending to be a Tennessee Hillbilly by sippin on the "receipe". That was several months ago and I hadn't had any for maybe a year before then. I also have not had Wine since my daughter's wedding almost a year ago. Nevertheless, I do have it in my home. Am I a horrible sinner? Maybe, but I would ask how many on this Board have cough medicine with liquor or codeine in their home? Is God setting up there looking to see if I am taking it for medicinal purposes versus relaxation? How many that would accuse me of sinning for my rare use of alchol have just had their 2nd or 3rd piece of Sister Jones' wonderful apple pie Smile

You get the point. Wasn't there a Bible verse about a splinter in my eye, versus a pole in your eye Smile

Wyatt, I didn't me YOU when I made those references, rather "we" on the Board.

Just my thoughts from the Pew.

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1274 **7/24/17 7:46 am**

Re: why judgmental

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3147 **7/25/17 9:47 am**

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1274 **7/25/17 11:42 am**

Re: why judgmental

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3147 **7/25/17 12:55 pm**

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1274 **7/25/17 1:44 pm**

Re: why judgmental

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3147 **7/25/17 1:55 pm**

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1274 **7/25/17 2:34 pm**

Re: why judgmental

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3147 **7/25/17 2:53 pm**

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1274 **7/25/17 3:25 pm**

Re: why judgmental

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3147 **7/25/17 3:55 pm**

Re: why judgmental

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **7/25/17 8:53 pm**

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1274 **7/26/17 7:13 am**

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3147 **7/26/17 8:54 am**

Wayne,
I appreciate your conviction from a personal level and to me that's what's important. I think a personal witness of "I abstain for such-and-such reasons" is a great witness to the world. Much better than "its a sin to touch it flat out and I'm not going to discuss it no matter what scriptures you quote". I think I would have avoided some difficult times as a youngster if I'd been taught actual scripture instead of dogma. My own feeling is that for those of us who are so inclined, the more its called "sin", the more tempting it is at a certain level and age group. I'll never forget how shocked I was as an 18 year old sitting in Dr. Daffe's bible class at Lee hearing for the first time EVER that it was indeed actual wine that Jesus created at the wedding feast and NOT grape-juice "like your pastor probably taught you". Smile

We both (and hopefully all) agree that there are many evils associated with all addictive behavior, and they are to be shunned whatever it takes. I too have seen sad situations caused by addictions and I pray that it never happens in my own family.