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 Suicide is not self-murder! In bible class recently the |
caseyleejones |
discussion came up about suicide and christianity. It was refreshing to here the table I was sitting at that they did not believe you automatically go to hell if you commit suicide.
If someone commits suicide, that alone tells me that there was some time of illness in the brain. |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11798
6/14/11 9:51 am
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Poimen |
You may be right that suicide is not always a culpable act, but it is nevertheless self murder. Either way, if a person is a sinner when they committ the act, even if not in their right mind in doing so, it doesn't change their eternal destination. And I doubt that every case is one of mental illness to the degree that a person is not held responsible before God for it. However, with the increase in meds that have this tendency as a side effect, along with illnesses that are prone to it, it may just be that many are not morally responsible in committing the act.
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Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
6/14/11 11:16 am
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| Poimen, you are basically right.....those who use the |
caseyleejones |
| term self-murder, use it within the context of a persons last act was a sin...therefore, there was no chance for repentance...therefore they're in hell. |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11798
6/14/11 11:55 am
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| Bible or Tradition |
Ed Brewer |
Are we willing to challenge tradition with truth? OK - here goes - where in the bible is there an EXPLICIT statement prohibiting suicide in every situation? Of course the prohibition against suicide is well supported IMPLICITLY, but where is it clearly, universally, and uncompromisingly disallowed by verbatim prohibition in the Word? I realize that the answer to these questions brings us face to face with the fact that our understanding of this 'third-rail' doctrine is fully derived and not explicitly received, but are we willing to have that discussion?
In the Old Testament, suicide is always presented in the context of the circumstances spurring it's commission, and it is never condemned. In point of fact, Samson remains one of our great heroes, Abimelech is seen as a man of moral courage who died with his honor in tact (after all, who would admit to being killed by a woman, right?), Saul's suicide is seen with an uneasy nod to his desire to preserve the honor of the kingdom, Ahithophel is used as a touchstone for dealing with anguish and unconfronted depression, and Zimri is viewed through the literary tragedy of a vanquished king. Scions of the covenant from Jonah and Elijah all the way back to Moses himself literally begged God to kill them in their distresses, and were in no way rebuked for entertaining the thought of ending it all early.
In the New Testament the issue is treated with a sort of benign 'also-an-issue' theological neglect in the account of Judas' death, and Paul's hand wringing to the Corinthians is not even looked at through the prism of contemplated early death. The only place where accelerating natural death is treated with other than factual ambivolence is in the context of the Apocalypse (Rev. 9) when the people will beg God to end their lives as an escape from the Locusts' torment, in which case it seems to be treated as a welcome but withheld blessing.
In my opinion, our treatment of suicide in the theological community is framed more by our fear of the inevitable end of unrestrained depression than by adherence to our own 'full-gospel' professions. Death is that 'last enemy' that causes a visceral fear when confronted close in. At arms length, we can shout the shout of victory over it and congratulate one another for our dominance of it's spectre, but when it comes close, even the most spiritual among us swallows hard even as we restrain the flesh's inevitable anxiety. Surely we take comfort in the knowledge that it will one day be destroyed, but death remains our most lasting, base, and unavoidable enemy. Any intentional invocation of death causes that melange of emotional angst to come flooding to the fore in a disturbing and caustic way. I believe that as much as anything else causes the church to cling so tenaciously to a position (suicide=hell) that is nowhere given standing as unassailable doctrine.
Is suicide sin? Is it murder? Is it wrong? Well OF COURSE IT IS! - but let's recognize the difference between doctrine and fret driven demagoguery. To put suicide in the category of the unpardonable sin is to give biblical equivalence to our own logical deductions and to cheapen the grace by which we are all given hope. Christ died that men might live, not that men might slip into a theological moebius loop and miss the grace of His mercy by the strength a clinical deficiency.
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Friendly Face
Posts: 312
6/14/11 1:03 pm
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| Ed, that is a very good post....I won't attempt to add to |
caseyleejones |
| it. |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11798
6/14/11 1:13 pm
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| Re: Bible or Tradition |
spartanfan |
| Ed Brewer wrote: | Are we willing to challenge tradition with truth? OK - here goes - where in the bible is there an EXPLICIT statement prohibiting suicide in every situation? Of course the prohibition against suicide is well supported IMPLICITLY, but where is it clearly, universally, and uncompromisingly disallowed by verbatim prohibition in the Word? I realize that the answer to these questions brings us face to face with the fact that our understanding of this 'third-rail' doctrine is fully derived and not explicitly received, but are we willing to have that discussion?
In the Old Testament, suicide is always presented in the context of the circumstances spurring it's commission, and it is never condemned. In point of fact, Samson remains one of our great heroes, Abimelech is seen as a man of moral courage who died with his honor in tact (after all, who would admit to being killed by a woman, right?), Saul's suicide is seen with an uneasy nod to his desire to preserve the honor of the kingdom, Ahithophel is used as a touchstone for dealing with anguish and unconfronted depression, and Zimri is viewed through the literary tragedy of a vanquished king. Scions of the covenant from Jonah and Elijah all the way back to Moses himself literally begged God to kill them in their distresses, and were in no way rebuked for entertaining the thought of ending it all early.
In the New Testament the issue is treated with a sort of benign 'also-an-issue' theological neglect in the account of Judas' death, and Paul's hand wringing to the Corinthians is not even looked at through the prism of contemplated early death. The only place where accelerating natural death is treated with other than factual ambivolence is in the context of the Apocalypse (Rev. 9) when the people will beg God to end their lives as an escape from the Locusts' torment, in which case it seems to be treated as a welcome but withheld blessing.
In my opinion, our treatment of suicide in the theological community is framed more by our fear of the inevitable end of unrestrained depression than by adherence to our own 'full-gospel' professions. Death is that 'last enemy' that causes a visceral fear when confronted close in. At arms length, we can shout the shout of victory over it and congratulate one another for our dominance of it's spectre, but when it comes close, even the most spiritual among us swallows hard even as we restrain the flesh's inevitable anxiety. Surely we take comfort in the knowledge that it will one day be destroyed, but death remains our most lasting, base, and unavoidable enemy. Any intentional invocation of death causes that melange of emotional angst to come flooding to the fore in a disturbing and caustic way. I believe that as much as anything else causes the church to cling so tenaciously to a position (suicide=hell) that is nowhere given standing as unassailable doctrine.
Is suicide sin? Is it murder? Is it wrong? Well OF COURSE IT IS! - but let's recognize the difference between doctrine and fret driven demagoguery. To put suicide in the category of the unpardonable sin is to give biblical equivalence to our own logical deductions and to cheapen the grace by which we are all given hope. Christ died that men might live, not that men might slip into a theological moebius loop and miss the grace of His mercy by the strength a clinical deficiency. |
Let me play Jehovah's advocate here: there are 8 different Hebrew words and 7 different Greek words translated in the KJV with the word "kill." The prohibition of course is against "murder" and it refers to ending the life of a human being. It is found in Exodus 20:13, "Thou shalt not kill." So then the relevant question is what does that particular Hebrew word mean, since it is the first time of just 4 that it is translated with "kill" in the Old Testament?
Strong's Concordance says it is from the Hebrew "ratsach" which is a primary root word meaning ""to dash in pieces, i.e. kill (a human being) especially to murder - put to death, kill, (man-)slay(-er), murder-er.
The Theological Wordbook of the O T (my concordance of choice) says it is clearly a Hebrew term with no clear cognate in any of the contemporary tongues. "You shall not murder," being a more precise reading. The many occurrences (of it) in Numbers 35 deal with the organization of the 6 cities of refuge to which manslayers who killed a person accidently could flee. Numbers 35:11 makes completely clear that the refuge was for those guilty of unpremeditated murder and killings as a result of any other circumstances....
So folks, citing circumstances and saying that "a person must be ill in order to commit suicide and thus not responsible" is just simply man's attempt to make allowances and provide hope where there are no Biblical allowances and in reality no hope to be found. You could just as easily say that a person would have to be mentally ill to kill another human being and thus not responsible. Rasah's connection to the city of refuge dispells all of these theories of men.
As painful as it is for those with loved ones who have "taken the place of God" in ending their life, it could lead to much more pain for parents and other loved ones if from the pulpit you give even a glimmer of hope of forgiveness to one that is sitting on the pew contemplating stepping into God's place for a moment and ending a life.
I am not without compassion - but my compassion doesn't over-ride common sense and Biblical authority.
Thou shalt not commit murder. Biblically cut and dry and the "spin doctors" are really out of line in twisting this to make an allowance for things like abortion or suicide or unpremeditated murder. Such allowances do not exist. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3638
6/14/11 1:48 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
If someone is genuinely out of their mind, we must simply trust in the goodness and justice of a perfectly loving God who always without exception judges righteously, and shows mercy where possible.
But I certainly would never lead anybody to think that suicide just MIGHT give them a ticket straight to heaven.
Back in my alcoholic days (over 20 years sober now by the grace of God!) I seriously considered suicide more than once. Thankfully I didn't listen to the Baptist preacher who told me if I ever had been saved, if I were to kill myself I'd go straight to heaven, because "once saved, always saved" was the gospel truth (according to Him).
Last edited by Quiet Wyatt on 6/14/11 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
6/14/11 1:57 pm
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| Re: To Spartanfan... |
spartanfan |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: | So, do you then believe if a person does some act of sin, and then (for instance) dies in a car accident before they can repent, that person goes to hell?
Further, I understand that suicide as we typically address it, is the instantaneous terminating of ones own life. But would it not also be suicide for a person inject small amounts of (for instance) a drug into their body that could kill them over the course of 10 or 15 years? And if that is true, then what do we do with those passionate believers who have been told by physicians that eating habits and health maintenance are critical, yet a person eats all the fried food they want, becomes obese and dies of a heart attack at 50 years old?
And what of the John 10:17-18...did Jesus commit suicide?
John 10:17–18 (NASB95)
17 “For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.
18 “No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”
Just some thoughts... |
Well, first of all.... you are asking "what do I believe". I am more cofortable in responding to "what does the Bible say", even though I believe the 2 to be very similar 
If a person dies with unrepented of sin... will they go to Hell? I believe "yes." Certainly God in His omniscience, omnipotence, etc. could give a "space for repentance" if He were to choose to do so. But say, if He decided that your life would end while in the act of committing adultry - then it's hard to stretch any Scriptures to give hope of salvation, IMHO. Young's Literal Translation renders Hebrews 10:26, "For we -- wilfully sinning after the receiving the full knowledge of the truth -- no more for sins doth there remain a sacrifice"
As far as "suicide by chocolate (or banana puddin')" or continuing to pastor when your doctor's opinion is that the stress of it will shorten your life - that's based solely on the opinions of men. I don't think we have pointed Scriptures to address those issues because we're talking about when the angels (or demons) actually come to collect a soul. There have been plenty of people who smoked, drank, ate fried chicken and pinto beans and lived to be 100. There have been a lot of professional athletes and health nuts that died with a very low percentage of body fat. I think your assessment that "suicide as we typically address it, is the instantaneous terminating of ones own life" would practically seem applicable here but not the case of doing something long-term that has a negative effect on your health...... and again since there is no direct Scripture given and the hand of God didn't write anything about meatloaf on the tablets of stone, it's just what I am thinking. But I will pray for the rapture real quick to keep me from sinning if the other is the case!
And as far as John 10:17-18 and the question, "did Jesus commit suicide?"- you have no need for me to write you concerning that.
Jesus described His act as " I lay it down." Greek, "tithemi", and Strong's says many things here in describing the act as "utterly prostrate, advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, kneel down, make, ordain, purpose, put, set, settle, sink down." Had He used the word from Matthew 5:21 quoting "thou shalt not kill" it would have been "phoneuo" which would have been the Greek equivilent of the Hebrew "ratsach" I talked about in my previous post. Jesus "laid it down before them" but He did not dash it into pieces Himself or else Peter wouldn't have laid it on the Jews at Pentecost in Acts 2: 36 saying, "...God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified both Lord and Christ" and Stephen would not have accused them before his death saying in Acts 7:52, "...and they have slain them which shewed before the coming of the Just One: of whom YE have been now the betrayers and murderers:' It is clear who the murderers are and in the NT it is never attributed to Jesus. But I know you already knew that Tom and you were just wanting me to answer it for the onlookers  |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3638
6/14/11 3:08 pm
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| Misunderstood?... |
Ed Brewer |
Spartanfan, I'm not sure exactly what you think I was trying to say by quoting my post en masse, but let me clarify just in case you think me trying to provide hope - I AM! Obviously suicide is not condoned in scripture, but neither is equating 'common sense' with 'Biblical authority'. For all the eisegetical grammatical spelunking in your post, I didn't hear one word about the source of our salvation - GRACE. The entire premise of the hard shell position on this very much derived position is that our understanding is sufficient to pass definitive sentence on the departed based upon our limited knowledge of all the circumstances involved.
Beyond the scope of this discussion lurks a biblical understanding of the process of salvation itself, and whether or not it is truly based upon His sacrifice (which, to carry 'common sense' to the extreme was an act of suicide IF you also believe in the omniscience, omnipotence, and trinitarian nature of God). Life is a gift, salvation is a gift, and death is a spiritual reaction to a divine decree - regardless of the circumstances involved - and as such is fundamentally above our pay grade to evaluate definitively. To deprive ourselves of hope in such a gray area fundamentally undermines the comfort that fellowship with Christ through His Spirit provides, and attempts to usurp the ultimate authority of the God in whose hands the keys of hell and death reside.
Finally, if it makes me a 'spin doctor' to choose an objective reliance on scripture over a subjective interpretation, then so be it. Imperically speaking, I've never met a suicidal person who was not sufficiently aware of the gravity of his or her choice - the problem is that they aren't looking at what's coming - they're fixated on what's already unbearably here in their hopeless lives. The cure isn't to dog-pile their misery with pseudo-theology, but to offer them the hope of the Cross.
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Last edited by Ed Brewer on 6/14/11 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Friendly Face
Posts: 312
6/14/11 3:12 pm
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| As for Jesus supposedly committing suicide, etc., ... |
Poimen |
Giving one's own life is not the same as taking one own's life. Jesus gave his life. Sampson gave his life. Soldiers, police men, etc., give their lives. That is not murder.
_________________
Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5657
6/14/11 3:21 pm
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| Re: Misunderstood?... |
spartanfan |
| Ed Brewer wrote: | Spartanfan, I'm not sure exactly what you think I was trying to say by quoting my post en masse, but let me clarify just in case you think me trying to provide hope - I AM! Obviously suicide is not condoned in scripture, but neither is equating 'common sense' with 'Biblical authority'. For all the eisegetical grammatical spelunking in your post, I didn't hear one word about the source of our salvation - GRACE. The entire premise of the hard shell position on this very much derived position is that our understanding is sufficient to pass definitive sentence on the departed based upon our limited knowledge of all the circumstances involved.
Beyond the scope of this discussion lurks a biblical understanding of the process of salvation itself, and whether or not it is truly based upon His sacrifice (which, to carry 'common sense' to the extreme was an act of suicide IF you also believe in the omniscience, omnipotence, and trinitarian nature of God). Life is a gift, salvation is a gift, and death is a spiritual reaction to a divine decree - regardless of the circumstances involved - and as such is fundamentally above our pay grade to evaluate definitively. To deprive ourselves of hope in such a gray area fundamentally undermines the comfort that fellowship with Christ through His Spirit provides, and attempts to usurp the ultimate authority of the God in whose hands the keys of hell and death reside.
Finally, if it makes me a 'spin doctor' to choose an objective reliance on scripture over a subjective interpretation, then so be it. Imperically speaking, I've never met a suicidal person who was not sufficiently aware of the gravity of his or her choice - the problem is that they aren't looking at what's coming - they're fixated on what's already unbearably here in their hopeless lives. The cure isn't to dog-pile their misery with pseudo-theology, but to offer them the hope of the Cross. |
You are certainly smarter than me. I like the way you write. It's right up there with my favorites like Tom and Sheepdog! But one slight problem I see in your lenthy explanation (Greek:bologna) is you don't seem to know what "grace' is. You write as one who believes that the sacrifice "not appropriated" eradicates sin.
Grace defined by Strong's has a real nice element to it that is most often overlooked: grace is.... the Divine influence upon the heart and [i]it's reflection in the life."
So you seem to be saying that one can "rebel against the commandments of God written upon their heart through the work of the spirit by means of the blood of Christ on the mercy seat" and still enter into that Heavenly city? What was all that stuff in Revelation 21:7-8 about? Was it a waste of time, ink and paper.... "Revelation 21:7-8
King James Version (KJV):
7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
You're definately more articulate than I am. But do yourself a favor and articulate the truth for us - and do your homework.
[/i] |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3638
6/14/11 4:10 pm
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Link |
Is suicide always wrong? Let's say there is a bomb that is going to blow up the entire city, yourself included. You find out that there is a switch sticking off the edge of a cliff on the outskirts of the city, which will also be wiped out. If you flip the switch, the bomb doesn't explode. You are standing on the cliff have 10 seconds to flip the switch before it blows up, so you dive off the cliff, flip the switch as you fall, and save everyone. You land at the bottom and die. No one else knows about the switch (attributing it to your occasional hallucinations) and some people comment about your having committed 'self murder.'
What about the soldier in Afghanistan who is escorting some CIA operatives who have information about the secret whereabouts of an enemy of the state. The Taliban have him surrounded. He knows they are all going to die if he doesn't do something. He tells the CIA guys "You run. I'll cover you!" He pulls a Rambo. He jumps out from behind the rock yelling at the top of his lungs trying to shoot everyone with an M-16. Of course, unlike in the movies, the other guys know how to aim, and he dies. Is this suicide? Is it self-murder?
I read about a couple of virgins that the Romans arrested for being Christians. They jumped off a bridge on the way to the circus or wherever they were going to be tortured. Was it wrong for them to do this if they were trying to avoid being raped by a cheetah before being murdered? What if they quoted the Psalm about the angels bearing them up, hoping they would be saved? What if they saw water on the bottom and wanted to attempt baptizing one another at their death?
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
6/14/11 4:36 pm
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| ....to Spartanfan |
Ed Brewer |
OK - here's how we do this thing -- I choose to thank you for your kind words, dismiss your sarcasm and presumptuous ad hominem attacks, and to encourage you to be careful when you confuse your own opinions, perceptions, and conclusions with objective fact. The only difference between bigotry and firmly held belief is the opinion the positor has of himself in relationship to others. I can assure you, my zealous brother, that I have indeed done my homework for the better part of forty years in this journey, and yet 'I count not my self to have apprehended' (OK, so I plagiarized that line from someone who was truly smarter than us both). I appreciate the vigor with which you defend your views, my friend, but if you will receive a humble word of encouragement, please don't confuse perception for fact - especially in the context of a 2-dimensional textual 'conversation' such as this. Does God pronounce judgment on people who ultimately reject Him - every day - but my only point is that we are on the wrong side of 'seeing through the glass darkly' to be so married to our own opinions. Since you mentioned Tom, his post brings to mind the quote often attributed to Augustine by Wesley (erroneously as it turns out) - "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity." Blessings!
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Friendly Face
Posts: 312
6/14/11 4:37 pm
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| Re: Bible or Tradition |
spartanfan |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: | | spartanfan wrote: |
As painful as it is for those with loved ones who have "taken the place of God" in ending their life, |
As a side note - The above thought is of curse advanced by Augustine...but is worth noting that it is based on the arguments of Plato more than scripture. |
Really? I didn't know that at all. Wasn't quoting Augustine or Plato. Thinking more like Job "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away - blessed be His name." I just thought since the Almighty originates every single life that comes into existence then it should be His call on when one should end and to make that decision yourself is kinda like "taking His right to decide away from Him." And I am a little uncomfortable casting myself in this "sort of hardline role" when I think there may be readers who are battling with a loved one that made a decision to end their life. I really don't want to increase anyone's pain - I was just trying to bring the danger of suggesting that someone can do it and still go to Heaven. If you're not sure of that (and I don't think you can be) then it's just dangerous to bring the possibility up. We can't do anything about those who already made bad choices but we can try to keep others from making the same mistakes. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3638
6/16/11 12:39 am
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| What about New testament references? |
diakoneo |
Matthew 17:15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
Sounds to me as if the young man has a mental condition (lunatick, moonstruck, crazy) and was trying (note the word oft: great many times) to commit suicide in the fire and water...
What was the Lord's answer...
18. And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
So often our answer is zoloft, valium, zanax, etc.
I have made this observation in my simplistic mind. I don't see monkeys committing suicide, or any animal or insect. The desire for all of God's creation is to live and do everything to struggle to live. Why is it that only man does this (committs suicide)...it is because he has an immortal soul and is made in God's image. Satan who desires to kill and steal and destroy, must be the originator of this for note what the pigs did when they were possessed by legion, they went off a cliff. They committed suicide! So unnatural a result this was that the Gadarenes said, Depart from our coasts, i.e. get out of here! |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
6/16/11 9:48 am
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| On dying after sinning... |
Clint Wills |
Admittedly I have not read every entry on this thread, so if I repeat something, I apologize. I think the difference between committing suicide or dying while committing adultery and dying while committing a "lesser" sin is more about the condition of the heart.
For me, by the time I got to a point of committing suicide I would have had to be listening to Satan for so long and following his guidance for such a period that I believe I would absolutely be on my way to Hell. Not for the suicide as a singular event, but because of the place my heart would have to be in order to kill myself. I think the same thing can be said about adultery or other things we would consider "major" sins. In order to get the place where I were so brazen to commit those sins, then my heart is not ready to go to Heaven anyway.
Now then, if I die while driving 5 mph over the speed limit I think that there is grace for that because it really isn't representative of the condition of my heart. It has nothing to do with trusting God or following the enemy of my soul.
Remember, Satan is out to kill each one of us. So, by committing suicide aren't we basically giving him the victory? If we aren't following and trusting Jesus, then who are we following?
I am not giving a final and definitive answer as to whether or not suicide automatically condemns you to Hell...I'll find that out in eternity. These have just been my thought on it. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5161
6/16/11 1:51 pm
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| Sicide is not murder. |
4golf |
| Exodus 20:13 says You shall not Kill. Ratsach in Hebrew means to kill a human being. It does not say to kill some one or your self. It says to kill. Repent means to turn from the sin your where in. If you repent then go and sin for the you are repneting for that is not true repentance. John the Baptist said to bare fruit "Worthy" of repantance. What I have read "Alot" in this post of you, that are trying to justify the sin of sucide by trying to split hairs! God made us and if we take our life, 99% of the time we will go to hell! They may be that 1% that "Truly" is insane, but the rest are playing God. God warns of altering His Word and you will be helded accountable! |
Bound By Beaulah
Posts: 1003
6/16/11 7:31 pm
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| Mr. Swaggart, I like your stats that 99% go to hell... |
caseyleejones |
| 4golf wrote: | | Exodus 20:13 says You shall not Kill. Ratsach in Hebrew means to kill a human being. It does not say to kill some one or your self. It says to kill. Repent means to turn from the sin your where in. If you repent then go and sin for the you are repneting for that is not true repentance. John the Baptist said to bare fruit "Worthy" of repantance. What I have read "Alot" in this post of you, that are trying to justify the sin of sucide by trying to split hairs! God made us and if we take our life, 99% of the time we will go to hell! They may be that 1% that "Truly" is insane, but the rest are playing God. God warns of altering His Word and you will be helded accountable! |
Did you do a survey or a random sample or did you survey all those who are in hell.
By the way, turn your spell check on if you can. |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11798
6/16/11 8:11 pm
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| Survey. |
4golf |
| I did a survey by the Word of God by the enlighnment by the Holy Spirit. Two things that you terribly lack! Just like I told some one else if you have a problem with spelling, you change it brilliant one! |
Bound By Beaulah
Posts: 1003
6/17/11 6:33 am
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| Only mods and admins can change it....newbie. |
caseyleejones |
| Still attempting to figure out that 99% number. |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11798
6/17/11 6:41 am
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