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Brandon Bohannon |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Brandon Bohannon wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Brandon Bohannon wrote: | Acts 16:33
Acts 18:8
Not that it matters to those who have made up their mind on this topic but for those that are interested in why some Christians practice infant baptism, I have included TWO instances in the N.T. Church where entire households were baptized.
I do not practice infant baptism with the one exception I mentioned earlier in this thread but I do find learning the entirety of Christian history fascinating. |
Again, you cannot cite these passages as proof texts for infant baptism. Other scriptures clearly link baptism to repentance and the forgiveness of sins. Thus the laws of hermeneutics rule out the possibility of infant baptism. Those entire households who were baptized did so because each individual member of that household believed the gospel thus fulfilling Christ's own words, "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved.." (Mark 16:16). |
Do you believe that one must be baptized in water in order to be saved? If so, what do you do with the thief on the cross? |
The "shall be saved" Jesus spoke of in Mark 16:16 is the same thing Paul said saves us in Titus 3:5, "washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost". In the first part of the verse Jesus speaks of "believing and being baptized" as steps unto (towards) that salvation. Those steps are not salvation in and of themselves.
The thief on the cross was not under the New Covenant. The gospel was not yet being preached yet, the Spirit for regeneration was not being offered. The experience of the thief on the cross is irrelevant to New Testament salvation. He could not have received a Christian baptism to begin with because it did not yet exist. |
If the Spirit for regeneration was not being offered, how would you explain the multiple times that Jesus told people that their sins were forgiven? Are you saying that those sins being forgiven weren't completely forgiven until at some point down the road, after Jesus ascended to heaven, that they were baptized in water? When did their regeneration take place?
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Proverbs 3:5-6; John 13:34-35; Acts 1:8 |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 571
8/20/16 5:07 pm
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Brandon Bohannon |
Mark 2:5-12
Some interesting things to consider:
1) When Jesus saw THEIR faith...
2) He said, Son, Your sins are forgiven.
When was this man baptized in water?
Those hearing Jesus began to murmur and complain because this wasn't the Old Covenant way of doing things. If the New Covenant isn't in effect yet and the Old Covenant isn't being followed, then what do we have going on here?
Short answer: JESUS!
P.S. Sorry if this seems like a hijack of the question but it seemed to me that there are disagreements about what water baptism is in the first place. Again, for the record, I don't prefer infant baptism. It isn't our practice. I do seek to understand why it is the practice of some. I also feel that certain exceptions can be made but that is solely based on what I believe water baptism to be. I appreciate that some on here may hold a different view than I do and I do honor your understanding of Scripture and why you hold to your view, even if we differ on it.
_________________
Proverbs 3:5-6; John 13:34-35; Acts 1:8 |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 571
8/20/16 5:24 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Brandon Bohannon wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Brandon Bohannon wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Brandon Bohannon wrote: | Acts 16:33
Acts 18:8
Not that it matters to those who have made up their mind on this topic but for those that are interested in why some Christians practice infant baptism, I have included TWO instances in the N.T. Church where entire households were baptized.
I do not practice infant baptism with the one exception I mentioned earlier in this thread but I do find learning the entirety of Christian history fascinating. |
Again, you cannot cite these passages as proof texts for infant baptism. Other scriptures clearly link baptism to repentance and the forgiveness of sins. Thus the laws of hermeneutics rule out the possibility of infant baptism. Those entire households who were baptized did so because each individual member of that household believed the gospel thus fulfilling Christ's own words, "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved.." (Mark 16:16). |
Do you believe that one must be baptized in water in order to be saved? If so, what do you do with the thief on the cross? |
The "shall be saved" Jesus spoke of in Mark 16:16 is the same thing Paul said saves us in Titus 3:5, "washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost". In the first part of the verse Jesus speaks of "believing and being baptized" as steps unto (towards) that salvation. Those steps are not salvation in and of themselves.
The thief on the cross was not under the New Covenant. The gospel was not yet being preached yet, the Spirit for regeneration was not being offered. The experience of the thief on the cross is irrelevant to New Testament salvation. He could not have received a Christian baptism to begin with because it did not yet exist. |
If the Spirit for regeneration was not being offered, how would you explain the multiple times that Jesus told people that their sins were forgiven? Are you saying that those sins being forgiven weren't completely forgiven until at some point down the road, after Jesus ascended to heaven, that they were baptized in water? When did their regeneration take place? |
Jesus had God's authority on earth to forgive sins, just as God forgave sins in the Old Testament, even outside the strict demands of the Law. But New Testament salvation is a brand new ball game. It is built on the death,burial and resurrection of Christ. If anyone who was forgiven by Christ during his earthly ministry failed to accept the gospel preached by the Apostles, they would not be saved.
The spirit for regeneration is clearly a post Calvary, post resurrection , post ascension experience poured out at Pentecost, the birthday of the Church.....
| Quote: | 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Saviour,
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:5-7) |
Notice that this experience Paul describes is something that God poured out (Acts 2, Joel 2) on us through Jesus Christ (his finished work), and is linked to justification, grace and receiving eternal life (verses 7- .
Jesus spoke of this experience prophetically (John 3, John 4, John 7, John 14, Acts 1) as something that would be a result of his exhalation.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
8/20/16 5:29 pm
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